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| Author: | John |
| Subject: | Sound Control Windows |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-04 23:01:16 |
Looking for windows that control and mute outdoor sounds. Milgard has the "quite line" with a sound transmission class rating of 40 - 47. Is this a quality product, does it work and/or other manufacturers a better bet? Thanks.
| Author: | tomf |
| In Reply To: | Sound Control Windows (posted by John) |
| Subject: | RE: Sound Control Windows |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-05 00:55:14 |
John -- i'm also looking for windows to cut down on outside noise, primarily from my neighbors dogs. i'm leaning toward getting Schuco's triple-pane windows with krypton gas. i think it's the 4100 line. the references the schuco salesmen provided me with say it's great for sound insulation.
i've also seen milgard's line on their website but there's no dealer (that i know of, anyway) where i live (northern virginia)
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | Sound Control Windows (posted by John) |
| Subject: | RE: Sound Control Windows |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-05 01:34:59 |
ALmost all manufacturers can use a sound style glass. What they usually do is add a 1/4" piece of laminated glass to the outside exposed unit. This is similar to the triple pain glass with the thin laminate layer between the glass. I'm not sure what the differences are for this. Oberon may be able to answer that one. I'm sure he will see this in the morning. Good Luck!!!
| Author: | Oberon |
| In Reply To: | Sound Control Windows (posted by John) |
| Subject: | RE: Sound Control Windows |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-05 17:04:28 |
Hi John,
Saying an STC with a "range" of 40 to 47 is like saying that the distance from Chicago to New York is between 1000 and 4000 miles west. It may be true, but it is kind of meaningless for any sort of workable calculation.
STC 40 to STC 47 is an extremely wide range. I would assume that the meaning of a range of 40 to 47 depends on various options available...laminated glass, wider air space, etc...in other words different window systems.
STC is an average of the ability of a window to attenuate sound through an entire spectrum. STC does not address sound attenuation at particular frequency ranges...A window might have an excellent STC, but it might actually perform more poorly than a window with a poorer STC, at a particular frequency range. In other words, you might install a window with an STC of 40, yet a window with an STC of 35 might seem to be quieter to you because of that unit's particular frequency response.
The calculations to label a window with a particular STC value are quite complex and for a window system to be rated, it must be tested and the resulting STC is "assigned" to that particular window.
Realistically, in order to achieve an STC of 40, you need laminated glass. In order to achieve a 47, you need laminated glass, and a pretty wide airspace ( at least 1")between the laminated lite and the monolithic lite....which makes for a rather thick IGU. I say realistically, because to achieve those STC levels without laminated glass, you would need an airspace something like 4" deep between the lites.
What sort of sounds are you trying to mute? Traffic noise, aircraft, people, dogs? It does make a difference.
BTW, I have mentioned it before, but assuming an equal volume of airspace in the IGU, there is NO advantage to using triple pane over dual pane for sound attenuation. I know it is common "knowledge" that triple pane is quieter than dual, but it is not necessarily correct common knowledge.
HOWEVER, if you are looking to deaden traffic noise or other low frequency sounds, then there is a slight advantage to using triple pane over dual pane assuming that both windows are using the same thickness of glass.
If the dual pane is using thicker glass than the triple, then the dual pane may outperform the triple at the lower frequencies. Also, using different thicknesses of glass in an IG construction will also help.
No one said this was simple!
And ultimately, the quality of the window construction and especially the installation makes all the difference in the world!
Hope this helped...
| Author: | John |
| In Reply To: | RE: Sound Control Windows (posted by Oberon) |
| Subject: | Thanks for your responses . . |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-05 20:43:51 |
Milgard claims they can build a window with an STC rating of between 40 and 47 depending on glass and air space considerations. I'm basically wondering about the quality of Milgard as compared to other brands, since they seem to profile their sound guard windows more than others. I live in Chicago in a very dense section of the Lincoln park neighborhood. I have an alley that runs by the side of my house and also another one in the back. I'm trying to cut the noise from the Vet clinic (dogs barking) behind the house and the garbage, utility and delivery trucks that use the alley on the side of the house. It seems like the more I read up on this, the more options and differences of opinion people have.
| Author: | Oberon |
| In Reply To: | Thanks for your responses . . (posted by John) |
| Subject: | RE: Thanks for your responses . . |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-05 21:37:54 |
John,
Please tell me about the windows you have now - specifically those that overlook the noise.
| Author: | John |
| In Reply To: | RE: Thanks for your responses . . (posted by Oberon) |
| Subject: | more info |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-05 23:59:26 |
The windows I have now are vinyl/vinyl clad. Probably 10 to 20 years old. The seal has broken in some of them with condensation between the double panes. Unknown brand. As I continue to read about replacements, I'm starting to think that the Andersen Renewal window might be a better choice than the Milgard Quiet Line. Any additional thoughts?
| Author: | Randy |
| In Reply To: | more info (posted by John) |
| Subject: | RE: more info |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-06 04:25:03 |
You might want to take a look at this site before spending any money on the Renewal by Andersen windows.
| Author: | Oberon |
| In Reply To: | more info (posted by John) |
| Subject: | RE: more info |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-06 16:10:14 |
Okay, the best window for sound control is aluminum. The worst window for energy efficiency is aluminum. Bummer, eh?
Vinyl windows are slightly better than wood windows at sound abatement, but wood windows are slightly more energy efficient…Now, before I create mass hysteria, I am speaking in general terms and individual windows vary by company and design.
A wood window with aluminum cladding, if there is an airgap between the aluminum and the wood, is not a bad compromise for both energy efficiency and sound control. Again, I am speaking in general terms.
Adding laminated glass as one of the two lites in the IGU will definitely help, plus laminated glass blocks 99% of the UV light that would otherwise cause fading. For a comparison, the best UV-blocking Low-E’s block maybe 80-85% of UV light.
As I have mentioned, the most important part of blocking sound in an IGU is the width of the spacing between the glass. Unfortunately, any space wider than ¾” and you will start losing energy efficiency…and generally, IG spacing varies between 7/16” and 9/16”, which is not the best for sound control.
One option is to ask the window company representative about the possibility of including storm windows as part of the package. The storm window will give you that airspace between the outer (storm) and inner (IG) that will definitely help in controlling some of that noise.
BUT, as is said often here, the most important part of all of this is a tight, quality window that is correctly installed – including the storm, if you decide on that option.
If the window isn’t “tight” or if it is installed poorly, then there is no amount of money you can spend that will help your situation. And, John, it is virtually impossible to block all noise. You WILL still hear some noises even after spending lots of money on trying to block them out. Unfortunately, some salespeople tend to be overly enthusiastic about their ability to block unwanted noise, and that generally leads to a disappointed and occasionally disgruntled customer. And no one wants a disgruntled customer!