St. Louis Options?

[win1]

This is an easy one for estimators to miss for tempered or spec tempered when not required. If it is required and you like a particular window just ask to have tempered added...if required.

It may or may not require safety glazing depending on the exact location of the window in relation the stair tread. The code is a bit confusing on windows near stairs. Try this link and scroll down for windows near stairs and the exceptions listed.

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ ... par111.htm

[Windows on Washington]

I would defer to the 2012 IRC.

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ ... =undefined

[win1]

OOPS! I inked and older code page sorry. You are correct. Here is the window by stairs link 2012 code:
http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ ... =undefined

[stlm]

Thanks for the links. My best guess after trying to interpret the code would be that it probably should be tempered as it is sort of best described as an attic space turned into a room and the last step of the stairs pass by it. Although I'd need to measure to see it's distance from the floor/step to verify.

I got my last quote for Verde Sunrise windows, quoted with Solar 12 glass at ~3050. I'm not sure what the upgrade to triple pane would cost.

So now I need to make a decision.

Verde Solar 12 = ~3050
Vanguard VG+ = ~3000
Elements Ultra S triple pane = $3400

Obviously I'd love to be able to go with the Sunrise Essentials line since it's cheaper and I'm not sure how long I will be living here, but if I actually wanted to go with quality, which would I go with?

I like the narrower frame of the Sunrise windows as the current wood frames are only 1 inch wide, but their performance isn't as good as the Elements and based off the literature the companies gave it seems harder to see the performance upgrades of the good Sunrise windows vs the Essentials. (Which would explain why the sales guy said that after the essentials line was released it started cannibalizing some of the higher end window sales. Although he also said the Essentials line has been improved a bit lately to allow less air infiltration).

While I haven't seen referrals of any of the companies' installations, all 3 have been Angie's list winners, check out well with the BBB, and have been around for many years.

The one thing I'll need to ask more questions about is the warranties.
The Vanguard company has a workmanship warranty, but then left the area about a service warranty blank. So it's not very clear what would be covered or not covered for labor/service.

The Verde company - has a 1 year labor warranty thru them, but a 10 year free labor warranty thru Verde. So I'm not entirely sure what that means or how that works.

The Elements - 5 year labor warranty (which below he wrote workmanship).

[Windows on Washington]

Of that list, I still like the Elements the best. Not as pretty as the Vanguard but a better performing unit.

[win1]

You might want to get a Bainbridge LE and Barrington Quote from the Soft-Lite dealers. They have the thinner frame profile with more glass area. Both models rate better than the Essentials.

[Windows on Washington]

You might want to get a Bainbridge LE and Barrington Quote from the Soft-Lite dealers. They have the thinner frame profile with more glass area. Both models rate better than the Essentials.

+1

If you are really leaning towards the thinner profile, the thinnest of the Soft-Lites will be the Bainbridge.

Good window but not in the class of the Elements and not quite as good as the Vanguard from Sunrise.

[HomeSealed]

+2. Bainbridge is not bad, but definitely a step or two down from the Elements and Vanguard IMO.

[stlm]

Thanks for the suggestion of the Bainbridge and Barringtons. I don't think they are really an option though. The company that sells Barringtons priced them at about the same price as the other company selling the Elements. The Bainbridge I didn't get an exact price on but my understanding would be that it would be slightly cheaper than the Elements, but more expensive than the Sunrise options.

In previous posts on this and other sites it seems like the Vanguard and Elements are pretty well regarded, but the Elements have a slight nod in the performance area. I guess I have to decide if the $400 difference is worth the performance upgrade but wider frames.

Thanks for everyone's input and help!

[HomeSealed]

Your line of thinking is spot on stlm. My only comment would be that while $400 is $400, this is a large, long term investment so that amount is pretty minimal from that perspective. Vanguard is arguably a little more attractive and provides more glass, with the Elements a bit more stout and with better ratings. Truth be told, the products are close enough (IMO) that I'd take a closer look at the installation company to decide which way to go. Quality install and customer service (before and after the sale) are very important.

[stlm]

I asked for a little clarification from the Element's dealer about his install process and service warranty. He said that the Elements windows come with some sort of foam around the window itself which snugs up against the frame and if measured correctly should mean that the fit is tight enough that the nozzle for the foam insulation usually doesn't fit around in there to add additional foam insulation. ? Any other gaps would be filled with foam, and weight pockets would be filled with fiberglass.

They do provide a 5 year service warranty on anything that may arise, which I believe is better than the service warranty the Sunrise dealers provide. So it seems like they are willing to stand by their product/install longer than the other guys.

[HomeSealed]

hmmm... the perimeter foam thing is a little concerning. Spray foam should still be used, and if the gap is too small, it should be caulked. The perimeter foam wraps from the factory are nice but ALWAYS leave gaps in the corners. They are helpful as a backer for spray foam/caulking.
This may or may not result in an issue, but it is slightly off-putting when someone cites the foam wrap as the primary seal.... Perhaps it was a simple misunderstanding in his explanation though.

[Windows on Washington]

+1

Someone selling an Elements window should absolutely addressing the envelope connection to the home and getting it buttoned up tight as a drum.

[stlm]

Yeah, I was a little concerned when I heard that as well. I think it may very well be a misunderstanding/poor explanation. I asked him if they only used fiberglass to fill the gaps and he said no, no we use spray foam too. (Cause originally when he came for a quote, I asked what he used for gaps and he said fiberglass as spray foam can make a mess and split old pieces of wood etc. But on my last conversation with him I was able to boil that down to fiberglass in weight pockets but foam elsewhere as needed).

I can't see them solely relying on the foam wrap on the window itself.

I'll be sure to ask again for more detail about the install to make sure they caulk/spray foam the gaps around the window. In one of the pictures I saw of their work online, it did appear as if they were had used a piece of fiberglass to fill a gap below the window.

[win1]

If it is a typical wood pocket install there is not always room for spray foam when fitting within a 1/4" or less of the opening size. Of course any reputable installer would in fill with fiberglass where needed and of course cap and caulk all exterior and interior perimeters.