Window World ?

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windowmann2000
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:16 pm

#31 Post by windowmann2000 »

eberry I don't have time to stop and do the math right now but the #'s you gave are right out of the WW bible. Are you with WW? Anyway I'll redo the math for you later. When WW tries to hire a sub that's the same line of s... they give them. None of their installers make $100,000.00 for wages.

windowmann2000
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:16 pm

#32 Post by windowmann2000 »

Three years ago WW moved into our area and had an ad in the paper that read make $75,000 installing for us full time guaranteed year round work etc.......So I stoped and talked to them and they wouldn't tell me what the pay was until I brought back proof of Ins, so I did and the local idiot still won't tell.........he gives me an 800# I call and he tells me $25 per and $10 to wrap. I said your nuts.........goodbye. About four weeks later their warehouse is full and the local calls me back and says $40.00 incl wrap.....click so you can see where I'm coming from, their chiselers. Cheap low rent jerks. Back to the wages in Wisconsin if you can work 46 6 day weeks in a year, that's max. So lets say the guys fast and works 6 days a week at 11 units a day 8 window and 3 clad for an average that equals $93,000 a year and that won't happen because of labor extras and so on. I'm not arguing with you it's just they lie about most everything. In their bible they tell the local mgr's to hire twice as many installers as needed because most of them are bums. They have no respect for a good installer and I have no respect for their low rent operations.

eberry
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Central US

#33 Post by eberry »

windowmann2000, I respect your posts here and am sorry you had such a bad experience dealing with them. My point is that I do believe that a WW installer could make good money at this lower wage, though they would have to work their butt off for a busy franchise. I agree this doesn't imply one will get a good install from them or that you didn't meet some slimy people at your local franchise, etc. - it is just that a consistent volume of work is one reason someone might decide to work there. I know a guy who works very long hours mainly to get away from the mother-in-law who lives in his house!

I agree with you that customers should be aware of the low per-window wages some installers make and consider it as one factor in the quality of the install they might get. It is a similar situation to the average service you get at a Burger King and a nicer restaurant due to wage differences, though there are occasionally good and bad people working at both places, for various reasons.

It seems that WW is a touchy topic here because they are charging less but often giving customers less in return (and possibly giving good window installers a bad name in some areas). That situation shouldn't prevent us from sharing honest information here, as I have done. To answer your question - other than a personal interest in home energy efficiency, I have absolutely nothing to do with the window industry or fenestration.

tah
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:10 am

#34 Post by tah »

You can't get a good home for $100,000 anywhere today.
You can't get a Toyota Camry for the cost of a Hyundai.
You can't get a good meal at McDonald's price.
You can't get Jif peanut butter for store brand prices.

You can't get a good window at Window World prices.
You can't get a quality install at Window World rates.

Absolute 100% of the time, universal truths? No, just 99.9% true all of the time.

Why would anyone think you can get a good window at these prices? Why not face the music and admit exactly where you're coming from. Folks who buy these windows are looking for the absolute cheapest price and are willing to gamble with their largest single investment, their home. If your home is the least bit nice, it deserves better! Would you wear tennis shoes with your most expensive suit? probably not.

I've got in front of me the warranty for Revere windows which are Alside. The Revere Sovereign is the Alside Sheffield is the Window World, ComfortWorld 6000 (their best). The Alside warranty is coming, not available online. Fantastic warranty, oh yeah, you bet.

Some highlights...........

Labor: One Year

What happens here at 2 years, 3 years or more? If you need a sash replaced and the factory cost is $50 and the labor cost is $50 do you think you'll be charged $50 or $100 for labor? My guess is $100.

Transferability of Warranty: Pro Rated (parts only)

1~10 years no charge
11~15 years, 50%
16~20 years, 70%
21~ 25 years, 80%
+ 25 years, 90%

Here's the kicker: "The basis for computing the cost of material for repair or replacement shall be current market prices."

In other words....10 + years from now....M/M Homeowner, we know you only paid $189, ($239 or whatever) for the window, but "current market value" for that window today is $600. Therefore your new sash to replace the seal that failed will cost you $300. This is not dreamland, this is how the price leading companies work. We've replaced a lot of windows for a little more than what the labor or parts would cost to repair these "Lifetime" jewels.

I know what you're saying now...."But I've got a Lifetime Warranty from Window World." Also in front of me is their warranty. Talk about vague! This thing has holes in it you could drive a truck through. The biggest hole I see is the Insulated Glass Pack (IGP) warranty.

"The (IGP) unit is warranteed against defects resulting in material obstruction of vision from film formation caused by dust or moisture in the dead air space of the sealed unit for the life of the window."

You're not protected against seal failure, only if it's bad enough to "obstruct vision". The "life of the window" is not defined. Could it be when the seal fails the window has reached the end of it's life? Seen that before too, from price leading windows in the past.

People have insinuated that other companies are "scared" of Window World. Yeah, like Toyota is scared of Kia. Two different ends of the buying spectrum. Those who buy a Kia today, because they simply cannot afford better, I take no issue with. Those ignorant enough to believe the Kia salesman who tells them they're "getting Toyota quality" for their $12K, I pity.

We'll see you folks down the line. It might be 5, 10 or 15 years, but trust me you'll be buying windows again. Happens every time!
Last edited by tah on Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not a salesman, but I play one on TV!

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Randy
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:26 am
Location: Houston, TX

#35 Post by Randy »

I agree completely TAH. In my experience, homeowners who would seriously consider doing business with Window World, Clear Choice Windows, and other such bottom feeders, are not really customers that I would generally connect with anyway.

As a general rule, I think that most of the business Window World does is on lower end homes anyway.

windowrep
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:54 am
Location: ne ohio

#36 Post by windowrep »

good post tah, i have said here all the time, that no one is scared of window world it is simply job security. 38% of the windows i replace are vinyl replacement windows. thank you very much because that is a substantial part of my income. there is a market for companies like this. there are also houses for them to put windows in. some of these houses would double their value with new windows. at least in my area they open up shop right in the urban parts of town and take advantage of the poor and the elderly. they dont do the home improvement shows or anything like that because they dont want their product to be looked at by the person who just saw another window. they will continue to put windows in houses, but being scared is hardly accurate.

windowmann2000
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:16 pm

#37 Post by windowmann2000 »

eberry your right, an installer could make decent $$ with them if you wanted to and felt like practically living there. If I had a mother in law I wanted to escape your point becomes more valid. My point is they missrepresent to the installers potential income just like they fib about a few other things, and to the others who just posted on this subject what about their famous double lifetime warranty.........I'm not sure but do you have to come back from the dead to collect on it.

eberry
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Central US

#38 Post by eberry »

I also chuckled when I heard the salesperson talk about a "double lifetime" warranty (windowmann2000 your comment about rising form the dead was very funny!). I assume after reading closer it was referring to the transferability to another family, but it is still a confusing and misleading way to state that to customers. WW here also seems to do most business in homes about to go on the market and older homes in mid-low end housing areas.

To be fair, the Revere warranty posted is different from the WW warranty. WW claims to be non-prorated lifetime on labor and materials, for as long as you own the home, see: http://www.windowworldinc.com/company/warranty.shtml. Yes, there are loopholes in it, as you'll see. The WW IGU clauses are about the same as you quoted, though Simonton 5500 is worded similarly enough that I think WW might have lifted their warranty! I haven't seen anyone currently warrantying actual gas retention (Schuco will eventually, we hear), though. In some WW franchises the Sheffield isn't the top of the line. The one here also offered the Alside Preservation (triple pane, krypton, B&T balancer, etc.).

homeowner
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:14 pm

#39 Post by homeowner »

you guys come on. you go after ww warranty using another's info?
the reason for double lifetime warranty (common with many products) is that it indeed extends those states that have statutes that say things like: lifetime=7 years.

you continually say the reason is they dont pay. let me see, there down to $25 a window. hmm? i dont even know if thats bad. im still looking/visiting with other buyers locally with ww. im seeing whaat looks like good work. is he picking? well this is the third time ive gone to him for addresses. ive seen sveral now. again, 1 complaint in 3 years. resolved. lets face it. individual installers, proffit is in the labor. these guys do volume.

also, between the 2 sites lately, there have been comparisons. there not much different in $. but no body says the other is too cheap. you keep saying we dont care about our home/investment. baloney. i wont take a risk with a good installer. btw, the first advice i took was to go to a local distributor. looked at windows. 4 brands. he reccommended the alside sheffield. i asked about install. they wouldnt. couldnt sell to me. but they would rec a good installer. his number was his house. he worked out of his station wagon. his day job was the gospel. i wanted a company with a history in a commercial location with a sign.

i think its the other site (cant remember) where the poor souls are fussing with a bad install with schucos. this is scary. i aint cheap, though i would prefer a bargain.

Alfer
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:19 pm

#40 Post by Alfer »

I had 6 windows and a sliding door put in by WW in August 05 and they did a very professional job..worked from 9am-9pm getting things done, and came back the next day to do some finishing touches..so far all windows/door have survived the super hot summer here in the South and some cold weather snaps this winter.

I really have no complaints...I don't plan to live in this house for more than 4-5 more years so I wasn't looking for the top top end windows to go in.

Our energy bills have lowered a bit as well...we especially notice a big difference in the summer when the hot sun shines ...the windows block a BUNCH more heat than the 1983 windows did.
Last edited by Alfer on Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tah
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:10 am

#41 Post by tah »

homeowner,

Window World's warranty was quoted exactly as I have it in front of me.

The Revere warranty was quoted to ask the question, how can Window World offer a better warranty than others offering the SAME window?

As soon as I have the Alside warranty in hand I'll be glad to post the details. I'm making an assumption, albeit a very safe one, that it will be the same as the Revere warranty. After all these windows come from the same factory(s) as does Window World!

If this doesn't send the alarms off, or peg your BS meter, I don't know what it takes.
I'm not a salesman, but I play one on TV!

eberry
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Central US

#42 Post by eberry »

tah, the alside warranty is here: http://www.alside.com/pdf/window_warranty.pdf. The WW warranty is different from the Alside one which is prorated and much more verbose. WW claims to add a stronger warranty instead of the usual Alside one. The 3 largest window companies I talked to in my area also claimed to augment their manufacturer's warranty with a stronger one that is lifetime and non-prorated (they sell stuff like Republic, Simonton, Great Lakes, Schuco, etc).

windowrep
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:54 am
Location: ne ohio

#43 Post by windowrep »

window world may indeed only have i resolved complaint in 3 years. the product they are distributing,alsides, has 46. if you are buying windows from a dealer you must check their bbb report and the window manufacturer. you are dealing with two seperate companies.

homeowner
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:14 pm

#44 Post by homeowner »

windowrep youre making my point. now the reason ww sucks is they sell those crappie alside windows. what was i thinking! a major manufactor of windows and they have 46 in 3 years? i wonder if you checked any others?
46 huh? that many?

Wds83
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Clarks Summit,PA

#45 Post by Wds83 »

I worked for a company which was one of the biggest dealers selling the Alside Omni Window back in 89' they switched over to the Great Lakes Uniframe window window in 93'. At that time they were getting $750 a window and telling there customers you have a lifetime warranty and never will have a problem..They basically had to replace most of the triple pane glass packs in entire houses. Alside is also charging the customers anywhere from $90 to $125 for each glass pack and wont take a service order from the dealer, the customer has to call Alside with there factory order number and they ship the glass to there house with instructions on how to change the glass. The dealer is basically out of it know. When customers call with problems they just give them Alsides number and there factory order number and tell them theres nothing they could do about it.

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