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 Post subject: Replacement Windows or New Storm Windows -- HELP!!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:50 pm
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My house was built in the late 1950's and I have good wooden windows with thick grilles, which I like. I was looking to replace two end windows which are casement -- all other windows are double hung. The replacement window people have pressed very hard on replacing all my windows -- of course. However, my windows are tight and basically seem in good shape. I do have trouble lifting a few of them. My storm windows do need replacing, so I thought that I would just get new storm windows INSTEAD OF replacement windows. The window sales people think I am totally nuts and behind the times. Any advice from those of you who know a lot more about windows than I do?


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 Post subject: Thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:02 am
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Hmmm, that depends. I have lots of thoughts, pro and con. What climate do you live in?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:50 pm
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I am in Delaware, so it is hot and humid in the summer and moderately cold in the winter with little snow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:50 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:10 am
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I have been trying to make the same decision and have decided that if i do anyhting it would be to replace the storms. My windows are original (1960's) wood and with very nice "real" grills. The same windows would cost me a fortune today. So why spend 25K to replace them when I can get new storms for 5K? One of the advantages I thought I liked was with new windows I could take the storms off. However, my old windows are in such good shape for a reason. Without the storm windows and with new windows I might get 15-20 years before I have to replace them again. And from what I have been reading about new windows that might be generous. Thats at a cost of over 1K per year. How much in heating bills will new windows save me? Maybe $100-$200 a year? My home might not be as "efficient" with new storms but it will cost me a HECK OF A LOT less money. Dont let the salesman sell you someting you dont need. They are in it for one reason.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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dafreak wrote:
Dont let the salesman sell you someting you dont need. They are in it for one reason.


Determining that you wanted new windows was your choice, and your choice alone.

Most people who decide to buy new windows have a real good reason...
Maybe their windows are falling apart, their windows are real cold, they are losing too much energy, or they don't operate well.
Many times there are no obvious problems with the windows. It may be for purely aestetic reasons, or to just keep their home updated, which we see people do all the time.

Why denegrate window salesmen for wanting to sell windows when you made that decision and then invited him to your home to get an estimate?
You decided your windows needed to be replaced, not the other way around.
Is a salesman supposed to read your mind and make his own determination of what all your motives are for replacing your windows and then try to talk you out of it?

I can certainly understand someone changing their decision to replace their windows during the looking process, but don't act like the window contractor is the bad guy for wanting to sell you windows, because you changed your mind and now think you don't need them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:10 am
Posts: 40
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Yes, I did WANT new windows and I agree that most people who buy new windows do have a good reason to do so. But none of the reasons you listed are the posters reasons. Her reason for considering new windows is the result of a salesman telling her to get new windows. In fact she says her windows are in good shape. I was not denegrating window salesmen. I simply told her not to let the salesmen sell her something she didnt need. And yes a window salesmans job is to sell windows. Now, as far as my situation, I did invite several window salesmen out and for the most part I was really impressed with each. None were pushy and most were very helpful. I appreciated their time. In no way was I stating that window contractors were bad guys but in this ladys situation it seemed to me (based on her post) that for the most part her windows are in good shape. She was the one who stated that the "replacement window people have pressed very hard on replacing all my windows -- of course". I went through the process already and decided against new windows. Our situations are very similar. Soooo, I shared with her what I learned. She doesnt need new windows but the salesmen is indeed pushing her to replace all her widnows. Call me what you want but that is what she said. And if she thinks her windows are in good shape then you can bet the window contractor does too. So what does that make him for pushing her to buy new windows?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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I see what you motivation was now in making the remarks. Reading them without going back and reading the first post again as well as your explanation makes the remarks sound worse than I see you meant them to be. My fault for not going back and not re-reading the entire thread.

Like Rosanna Rosanna Danna used to say......never mind. :oops:


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 Post subject: dafreak -- what brand of storm windows did you choose?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:50 pm
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Yes, indeed, the two window sales people with whom I spoke were extremely nice and very informative. However, they also used reasons for purchasing windows that really turned me off, i.e., all your neighbors are doing it, they're needed to upgrade your house, etc. Also, when I suggested that I might simply need new storm windows, one of them laughed and said that was a silly idea.

dafreak -- have you decided on a brand of storm windows? In researching my situation, I found several mentions of the Tru-Channel storm windows from Harvey, but they are not available to me here. How can you tell good ones from not so good ones?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:42 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:10 am
Posts: 40
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I was interested in Harvey storms but they were not available in my area either (Chicago). The contractor I had out recommended Sugar Creek Industries storm windows. His quote for 30 replacement "windows" was 5K. I am not sure if they are available in your area either but the website is www.precisionentry.com

Good luck and if you have any other questions please feel free to ask.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:53 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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I used Winstrom storm windows out of Illinois when I actually sold storm windows a long time ago. They were a well made high quality storm windows compared to others I had access to.


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 Post subject: Reply
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:18 am
Posts: 553
Location: Illinois
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Why I don't recommend storms:

With energy costs and environmental polution at a steadily increasing all-time high, they are far from the best solution for those that can afford it. They create twice the cleaning, twice the operation effort to open a window, and twice the maintenence, while offering considerably less energy efficiency. Also, in this age of education, it is becoming more and more common for educated home buyers, especially in the higher end markets, to see a home with storms as "out-of-date" and needing improvement... and understandably so. This conversation should not just include energy efficiency savings vs/investment, but resale value, homeowner convenience, and overall marketability of the property. MANY Real Estate agents are getting on top of the ball these days... as a matter of fact, some organizations such as Remax and Prudential are nationally leading the way and have incorporated more and more energy efficient practices into their marketing. They are learning... so their clients are learning... and the messages are indeed being received.

The Appraisal Journal was funded by HUD and the EPA to perform a study on this subject. In short, their published results determined that "the home increases by about $20 for every $1 reduction in annual utility bills". This is based upon actual home sales and what home buyers found to be of value. Low/No maintenence and highly efficient products payback in many other ways each day in savings and comfort and then multiply upon resale. These reports are internet accessible through EPA affilated organizations.

Good luck no matter which way you go... but if you choose the route of storms, atleast consider reinvesting some of your savings into other areas of your home that can truly contribute to us all as well as your monthly bills. There are many ways to skin that darn cat. Storms are most popular for homeowners that were born between 1930 and 1960 as the 1960-70 boom taught them it was the best way to go. At the time... it was... it's just not even close anymore... and is never a plus upon resale in today's market.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:10 am
Posts: 40
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Fenex, good post. However, I am not quite sure that I agree with all of what you say. I personally like storm windows because they protect my windows, thus the reason that the windows that were put on my house when it was built in 1964 are still in very good shape. Without the storms the house would probably be on its third set of windows by now. Low maintenance/no maintenance is nice. But if the maintenance you do have to perform on a new window is its replacement after 15 years then I guess in a way you are performing the biggest maintenance on the windows that you ever could. Personally I feel storm windows are getting a bad rap and are being swept under the carpet because they are realtively cheap. Why sell something that is realtively inexpensive when you can sell something that is "new", "efficient" and very expensive? Its also all about bringing the customer back and making them pay again at a future date. I see that not only with windows but many products. The consumer is not educated on the issues as is apparent by the numbers you presented on resale values of homes. I would be willing to put my old windows with new storms up aginst any other replacement window out there and I would be willing to bet that 20 years down the road my windows will still be in good shape and that those new and efficient replacement windows that customer A bought will be in need of replacement. And, I will have saved tens of thousands of dollars in the process.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:54 am
Posts: 181
Location: ne ohio
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i for one will take that bet. a good quaility replacement window will not need replaced in 15 years. i do not know where you are getting that information. but it does prove that a consumer with misinformation will make a poor decision. fen exs post is 100% accurate and probably a little conservative. storm windows were ugly and did nothing for the property value in 1960 and are even worse today. that being said, this is what makes the world go round. different people like different things. good luck to the original poster either way and dafreak why are you on a replacement window web site? is there no storm window replacement discusson board?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:42 pm
Posts: 24
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Here's an idea. While your out buying your new storm windows, why not stop by an Awning dealer.

This way you'll have new storm windows and new awnings for every window on the home completing the mission of taking your home back to 1964.

I know where you can get a green refrigerator, stove, and pink toilet if your interested.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:30 am
Posts: 22
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Most of the pros here are quite helpful, if a bit biased about their advice.

Not every homeowner has $12-25K to spend on windows, regardless of how much better an "upgraded choice" might be than say the Sheffield or Simonton 5500.

Here in Denver, home prices are falling and we lead the nation in foreclosures right now. If your average house sells here for $200-250K, you're taking a serious chance that you won't get even close to your new investment if you spend a ton of dough.

I grew up in CT where your chances are better that you're adding real and significant value to your home by spending that much, here in Denver the odds are against you. The average buyer in the lower-middle real estate market here cares about home price FIRST. Land is still relatively cheap and there are TONS of new homes being built each year, resale of existing suburban homes are way down.

My house is worth about $210K, a 1250 sf ranch with a new and nicely finished full basement which is 1200 sf. There's a house across the street that is $199K (same model, but larger, average condition) and BRAND NEW homes one block away that range from $190K (1400 sf) to $267K (about 2000 sf).

If I put $20K in new windows into a 27 year old house, how much do you think I'll get back if I sold the next day? I'm guessing $6-8K tops. That's why I'm buying the Sheffields for about that price.


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