Vinyl vs. Fiberglass Replacement Windows

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earwax
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:52 am
Location: West Coast

#46 Post by earwax »

TRUITT & WHITE
642 HEARST AVE.
BERKELEY, CA 94710
Phone: 510-841-0511

They are the best in Berkeley. If you are willing to go over the hill a bit, there is ASK windows (They carry everything and specialize in none), Dolan's right off of 24 and 680 and Piedmont Lumber just south of 24 on the 680. These are all lumber companies. They can suggest an installer, but only sell the windows primarily. They will be the most unbiased source for windows and can answer all you specific questions on each window they sell.

The mold issue I have not heard of being caused by the windows. The installation might let water penetrate the barrier. But that would be the istaller and the method he used, not the window. If you choose a good vinyl window, mold will not come in your house because of the choice of frame materials. Let me know who you choose and what you liked about them. I would like to give them feed back. Even if you do not choose one of the ones I listed, let me know. I most likely know them.

lsb
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:23 am

#47 Post by lsb »

Thanks so much. Truitt and White were already on my list so im glad you mentioned them. i have met with ashby lumber's Window dept and the only other on my list is called Sinan's Windows. I will see what they all say and go from there. thanks for your take on the mold. i appreciate it!

FiberglassVinyl
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:09 pm

#48 Post by FiberglassVinyl »

lsb, I'm certainly no expert (I initiated this topic), but I may have an answer to your mold question. I have steel frame windows that I am about to replace. Some of the windows on the north side of the house have a light coating of a blackish substance that may be some form of mold. My theory is that on the cold side of the house the frames sweat inside the house when it's cold outside, i.e., condensation forms, leading to the "growth". If that is what is happening with your son's windows, either vinyl or fiberglass windows should eliminate any condensation problems and the mold.

I was interested that you found Marvin Infinity fiberglass windows were not that more expensive than Milgard vinyl. I'm in the south bay and got a quote for Milgard Ultra and and Pella Impervia (both fiberglass) that were 35% higher (installed) than Milgard Classic (vinyl). Did you price Milgard Ultra too? I was also kind of surprised that Marvin Infinity is available in this area since their website implied that Infinity wasn't available on the west coast.

As far as fiberglass vs. vinyl, if you're going to be out of the house in three years I would go with the less expensive vinyl. I doubt you would recoup the extra cost of fiberglass when you sell. I haven't decided since I haven't seen a fiberglass window yet, but fiberglass should look better since they should have thinner frames and you can paint them to match both exterior and interior colors. From what I've learned here, and comparing Milgard's specs, they should thermally perform about equally. I didn't receive a definitive answer, but fiberglass should last longer (I plan to stay in this house the rest of my life), but maybe not enough to justify the additional cost. The deciding factor for me will probably be looks. Good luck.

lsb
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:23 am

#49 Post by lsb »

Thanks, fiberglassvinyl, for your input. regarding the mold, it is on all of the aluminum windows in the house (only one side of the house has been replaced with vinyl. the rest are aluminum). i purchased a kit where you take a sample of the mold and send it to be analyzed and sure enough, it's mold. not to mention they let the cold weather in.

as for the cost, i probably will find out that there is a much bigger difference in cost. as i mentioned, i am at the very beginning of this search and when i went into the window place it was spur of the moment - i didn't even have the correct dimensions for the windows. the quotes they gave me were:

Milgard single hung DG white, frame styleline, glass CLR LE, no grids for NFS (what does that mean?) 35 3/8 x 47 3/4 cost of $233.58 (including tax). slider is $230.75

marvin integrity, wood ultrex series 36 1/2 x 48 1/4 Low E II with argon, pine interior white exterior is $302 with tax. slider is $341.12 (ok, that one is more expensive). the $70 difference isn't THAT much of a difference. The Milgard all fiberglass double hung were $445 so i had crossed that one off the list (at least from this store). I thought the wood/fiberglass would be more because you always hear wood is so expensive.

those costs do not include installation. I have to find my own installer and i haven't a clue as to what that is going to cost. I'm sure once i get exact specs and costs there will be a bigger difference.

i'm trying to learn as much as i can about what to ask and look for, and this board has been really helpful (altho also a little confusing....it's like an entire new language!). thanks for your comments. i'm all ears to anything anyone has to add.

lsb
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:23 am

#50 Post by lsb »

Another question for folks, regarding installers, what do you look for when interviewing potential candidates? i'm assuming licensed contractor. But i don't have a clue as to what kind of questions / skills i should be looking for. any comments? that info may be somewhere on this site, i just haven't found it yet.

thanks!
PS i did cancel my appt with Renewal after reading all the comments on them.

earwax
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:52 am
Location: West Coast

#51 Post by earwax »

Another question for folks, regarding installers, what do you look for when interviewing potential candidates? i'm assuming licensed contractor. But i don't have a clue as to what kind of questions / skills i should be looking for. any comments? that info may be somewhere on this site, i just haven't found it yet.
If you go to a lumber yard and look at the windows, most of the time, the yard has a few contractors they will recommend. In California, if you go a glass shop, they will do their own installations most of the time. Do you have anyone in your nieghborhood who had their windows done? Ask them who did them. Referall is a good way to find a good contractor. Once you found one that you like and think will do a good job, check him out with the liscence board and the BBB before you sign anything. IMO. :wink:

lsb
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:23 am

#52 Post by lsb »

thanks for the tip. unfortunately, no one seems to have good experiences here in berkeley for much of anything! i have had a few friends put new windows in, and not one of them would recommend their installer or company they used. and the only general contractor that was recommended to me told me 'two windows isn't worth my time to come out. and that is probably the case with most general contractors'. nice? i will just have to have faith in the reco i get with the company i decide to get the windows from and cross my fingers.
thanks everyone for your help. it's a big relief to be more educated on all things window, and i have to admit, kind of fun reading all the posts on this board (i loved the sopa opera about anderson renewal windows. almost better than daytime tv!) maybe i need to get out more often.

cojo47
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Location: Silver Spring, MD

#53 Post by cojo47 »

In our search for replacement windows we have evolved from vinyl to wood to fiberglass, largely for esthetic reasons (we don't like the thick, cold-white frames of many vinyl windows ) ... but having read this informative thread, perhaps we will evolve right back to (the more delicate choices in ) vinyl for practical reasons.

Today we looked at the Marvin Infinity and liked the sleek frame and large sightlines, but not the large cost or the short warranty! The structural advantages of fiberglass are fascinating ... but the bottom line in any purchase is not features, but benefits. So here's our (perhaps rhetorical) question: if fiberglass windows are as durable as some people claim ... why are the warranties on the window (10 years) and glass (20 years) so short relative to vinyl windows (lifetime)?

Frankly, 10 years seems very short on the time scale of potential house ownership. So is the purchase of fiberglass windows a risky trade for an extra 1/2" of glass at each window border?

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Randy
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#54 Post by Randy »

The benefits of fiberglass are way overblown. The only advantages of fiberglass over vinyl that really matter are:

1) paintable frames
2) more glass - less frame


I have sold many Milgard Ultra windows and doors, and they can bow and distort like a vinyl window. Fiberglass advertising always talks about tensile strength, which is a pulling pressure - not relevant to long term durability whatsoever. Fiberglass is brittle and cracks when too much pressure is applied, such as over-tightening the installation screws.

Having said this, I do not have any experience with the Marvin Integrity line, and I am hearing good things about it. JScott, also a poster here, believes in them 100%, and apparently is having good success with them in Kentucky. Maybe Marvin has come up with some solutions that Milgard, Comfortline, Inline, Owens Corning and Fibertec couldn't. We'll see.

PrairieRider
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#55 Post by PrairieRider »

Randy wrote:The benefits of fiberglass are way overblown. The only advantages of fiberglass over vinyl that really matter are:
I don't see to many commercial projects spec'ed vinyl where they demand rigid air infilatration and water penetration rates along with the best thermal performance.
Milgard Ultra is a cheap fiberglass window...do not hold them up as a standard for fiberglass. Speak with any engineer or architect who has worked with an Omniglass 325 Series or Inline Fiberglass Window and they'll have nothing but good things to say. Vinyl is a good window is its own right but fiberglass is simply far superior.
Overtightening of screws is a weak reason for disregarding the material.

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Randy
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#56 Post by Randy »

Overtightening of the screws was simply one example. How about block-and-tackle balancers coming un-hooked and blowing holes through the fiberglass. Cracks in the fiberglass during shipping. Corners pulling apart. Differences in the thickness of the pultrusions which keeps the corners from matching up.

I don't know where you get your data on air infiltration and water penetration, but if you have proof that fiberglass outperforms vinyl on a consistent basis, put it up. I'll be very interested in your sourcing.

PrairieRider
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#57 Post by PrairieRider »

Randy wrote:Overtightening of the screws was simply one example. How about block-and-tackle balancers coming un-hooked and blowing holes through the fiberglass. Cracks in the fiberglass during shipping. Corners pulling apart. Differences in the thickness of the pultrusions which keeps the corners from matching up.
It appears as though you are having an issue with your supplier.
If I were having issues with a supplier or 2 of vinyl I would not automatically disregard the material as a whole. The balance issue can happen to any material. Fiberglass does not just crack( Iwould hate to be a boat salesman if it did)...it takes a great deal of force for a crack to result. Corners pulling apart sounds like mishandling. Varying thickness sounds like poor manufacturing tolerances. All these issues can be attributed to any material.
Can a vinyl window be built to a dimension of 16'x18' without a fiberglass or steel reinforcement and resist deflection??
I have dealth with fiberglass quiet extensively and have not encountered any of the issues you have. The only issue I have with fiberglass is the lack custom bends like vinyl. Since fiberglass is inert it cannot be melted like vinyl to conform to a bend. Fiberglass has to be segmented.

In regards to the performance of the window...I'll let you do your own research. :wink:

Window_Guy
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#58 Post by Window_Guy »

In regards to the performance of the window...I'll let you do your own research.
Come on, if you’re going to promote fiberglass then promote it. If you believe in it, and sell it, you should at least be able to provide some credible information to back up what you’re saying.

Would you pull that line with a customer?

Window_Guy

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Randy
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#59 Post by Randy »

I figured as much. You're not the first person to overstate a position, then when challenged, refuse to back it up, only to fade away or begin posting under a different screen name.

PrairieRider
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#60 Post by PrairieRider »

Relax Randy, I'm a slow typer :P .
After reading over your previous posts it seems to me like you've dealt with fiberglass very little. Probably more than most but still not enough to fully grasp the benefits of fiberglass. If Milgard and some Comfort Line are the products you've previously dealt with I can understand where your coming from . As I've stated previously Milgard's window is certainly not one to hold up as a standard and Comfort Line is not much better.
However I would look to Canadian Fiberglass Window manufacturers as a standard. They were the first to utilize fiberglass and are the leading performers in the segment. Market penetration is their only drawback due to the cost of production.
Omniglass produces windows that have a u-value that go down to 0.10(whole window mind you, not COG).
Inlines goes down to 0.18. Both companies have air infiltration and water penetration rates of HC-65 to HC-90. Frames can be manufacturered to aluminum size proportiuons with minimum deflection.
Pit one of these windows up against a premium vinyl window and I'm sure you'll agree that the fiberglass is a better window. :wink:
Also I don't believe I've overstated a position. All I've done is defend a product and provided my honest point of view on said product.

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