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 Post subject: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:51 am
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Clearly, the focus of the window industry has shifted over the past half of a decade with the first enactment of the energy tax credit while President Bush was in office in 2005, and then with the continuation and update of the same idea on February 17, 2009 when President Obama spiked the credit up to a possible fifteen-hundred dollars. All the best window companies have consequently pushed forward; windows and their components (spacers, glass, coating, primary structure materials, etc.) are now more energy efficient then ever, which makes for some much-needed success in the window industry. Andersen, Milgard, Pella, Jeld-Wen, and so many other window companies are all in this gauntlet, throwing jabs left and right at each other. Amidst this marketing fury, one company has swiftly entered the ring unnoticed, taken everyone else from under their feet, and single-handedly stolen the spotlight. Or so it seems.

This company is Serious Materials Inc. and they are ready to do business. The CEO of the operation who has been its brainchild since the first product (Eco-Rock, a synthesized sheetrock consisting of up to eighty percent recycled materials that used eighty percent less energy to produce than gypsum drywall) is Kevin Surace. This man knows business on a behavioral level, having dealt with technology and software in the heart of California’s silicon valley for a time. It has not been until now that the window industry has started to pick up interest in R&D since the 1970s and Surace admits that, “when venture capital leaves the field, innovative ideas tend to dwindle.” This man knows very well what a new idea like an ultra-energy efficient window could do to the market of new and replacement windows for commercial and residential applications.

The window product line is aptly and simply named Serious Windows, and as of now, there are four different lines of vinyl windows, and three fiberglass lines. Surely, the choice to forgo wood, clad, and other types of windows was no mistake: “the kind of material science where you’re digging into the molecules” had not been used in windows R&D as yet, and so it was time. Surace and his company took the necessary steps forward to raise the energy standards in the window industry to atmosphere-shattering levels. To put it into perspective, the requirement for the energy tax credit is a U-factor of less than or equal to .3, but the offerings of Serious Windows reaches down to a U-factor of sometimes less than .09! That is more than three times more energy efficient than the suggested level according to Energy Star and the new energy tax credit. Amazingly, Serious Windows has grown immensely with plants in Pennsylvania, California, Colorado and Illinois.

With all this hype around the race for the most energy efficient window, Serious Windows cannot, under any circumstance, be considered a weak threat. All window companies and consumers must at least acknowledge the foresight and amazing heights that Serious Windows has achieved in just a few short years. Despite all this, there are still stones left unturned. First, the notion that over time, energy efficiency could quickly depreciate is certainly a consideration. Also, the question consumers must ask themselves is: When do the windows become worth it? And at that time, will they have lost their thermal performance? At any rate, Serious Windows is a force in the window industry to be reckoned with, so check out this thread concerning Serious Windows and questions posed, and also check out the Serious Windows website itself.

Feel free to research, consider, and post opinions regarding Serious Windows. I would appreciate everyone's input!


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:01 pm
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Location: Central PA
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Wow are you "serious"? A whole window U-value of .09?


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:51 am
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Seems to be what their claiming on at least one model.

http://www.seriouswindows.com/html/numbers.html


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
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Location: Northern Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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windowdude wrote:
Wow are you "serious"? A whole window U-value of .09?


It is only available in casements and picture windows and a single 94 UI casement will cost the dealer over $2000. Add installation, profit & overhead and who is going to buy these windows at $2400-$2500 a window?
This is where the Kensington and other vinyl plants come in. When you can't afford the 4x energy star $2500 fiberglass window, then they drop you to the average vinyl window with triple glass, ......or double glass if that doesn't make the sale.
The super-insulated fiberglass window will get the salesman in the door, ....the salesman closes with sale with the cheaper vinyl window.
Great sales gimmick/plan I have to admit.


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:17 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:05 am
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This discussion is on the right track. Serious Windows is the key change in the window industry of late. And they are bringing to the public's attention that the technology has been there for twenty years to make windows that are three time more efficient than Andersen, Pella, and Marvin. Someone said the top series -- #1125 -- costs $2000 per window. That's the first time I've been able to find mention of price. And that's what homeowners need right now, including me, is the ability to compare Serious to other brands. It is harder in that no installer in my area knows anything about it, or is used to ordering it. But if it's going to cost me $14,000 for 7 windows, versus $2800 with Pella Proline, then the search is over. Because that's a very long payback period, and besides I can double the R-value of the openings by putting rolling shutters on the outside for an extra $2500-3000. So, very interested if anyone knows prices on these things. Serious needs to give a rough indicator of price on their website. Since they don't, I have to think that $2000 may be correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:01 pm 
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It would be great if a representative from Serious would come and post about their products; lots of curiosity out there. We have called them several times and invited them to do so, but so far they have not been inclined to pay us a visit.

Ed’s

p.s. Any pro’s out there been approached by them to carry their line?


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
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Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY
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A good friend of mine was recently hired as a rep out of there PA plant. I've asked him to come and show me the fiberglass windows. I'll keep the board informed of the developements. He did say there was one stip and that was I have to take their vinyl business too, which will never happen. I'll twist his arm a bit and who knows...


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Until they get more "Serious" about a reasonable price point, they "Seriously" will sell very little of this product.

I would be more interested in a vacuum type airspace than a 4 airspace type window.

At 2K+ per window, you are going to have hard time convincing someone not to buy a triple pane krypton window that tests out in the mid teens U-Factor for a quarter of the cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:51 am
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The whole thing for me is hard to understand, I just can’t imagine discussing these windows with a customer and having a viable explanation on why they should by them. They are double the cost of the absolute best out there.

I can’t see someone recouping the investment in energy savings.

Anyone able to make the math work?


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
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Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY
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Window-Guy wrote:
The whole thing for me is hard to understand, I just can’t imagine discussing these windows with a customer and having a viable explanation on why they should by them. They are double the cost of the absolute best out there.

I can’t see someone recouping the investment in energy savings.

Anyone able to make the math work?



Nope, but I expect the price will come down and fall in line with Marvin in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:06 pm
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I just had a rep come in and give me a quote on the Serious Windows- They are impressive, and the quote was $15k for 12 windows + a sliding glass door. They were the 725 Series Fiberglass, which is the lowest of the 3 fiberglass options, but a U rating of .18!!

I haven't made any decisions yet, but I am planning on being in this house for 15+ yrs (I hope)....so, might make sense...


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:14 pm
Posts: 32
Location: NY, NY
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Patricks: Go run the numbers using ResFen5 (search google, it's a free tool). Check my post here entitled "bang for buck" where I mention some of the results I got using ResFen5. My guess is that for $1000/window, with a U of .18, it could take you WELLLLLL beyond 15 years to even come close to getting the cost back versus getting maybe a U of .25 or so in a window 1/2 that price.


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1194
Location: Northern Virginia
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Not everyone is interested in ROI. I doubt you purchased the furniture for your house, TV's, Stereos, Kitchen Appliances etc. with "payback" in mind. I'm getting ready to purchase a new LED TV and could care less about ROI. I just want the best money can buy. Some just want the best energy efficiency or aesthetics. I pay more for my "Energywise" lightbulbs but, I'm just trying to do my part.


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:14 pm
Posts: 32
Location: NY, NY
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True, but I sensed from

"I haven't made any decisions yet, but I am planning on being in this house for 15+ yrs (I hope)....so, might make sense..."

that Patricks may have ROI in his mind, so just giving my 2 cents on that.

A good saying I once heard "I'm too poor to buy inexpensive things"


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Windows
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 6
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I sell the Serious window in the Pacific NW. The most important thing everyone should address before making an important purchase is to establish your priorities. We all have different motivations for our purchases. Not every window out there is going to be for everyone.

The Serious window has 3 fiberglass series the 725 being the least expensive. There is talk of coming out with another more cost effective version that will replace the Krypton gas with Argon gas and the insulating foam used in the frame (no one else even insulates their frames) will be changed to a standard foam.

There is another feature about this window that I don't see anyone talking about. The ability to increase your solar heat gain while maintaining the low u-value. In our area this is used on the southern exposure to take advantage of passive solar heating.

As far as pricing goes in general terms I would say that the pricing is about 20% more than Marvin Integrity. This is comparing the 725 series to Integrity.


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