Serious Windows

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buddy11
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY

Re: Serious Windows

#31 Post by buddy11 »

spegga wrote:I just had a presentation re Serious windows; I had called the rep with an interest in the fiberglass line. I was clear about this on the phone. The salesman came with information about their vinyl line, quoted immediate prices and then proceeded to "What will it take to get your business?" He would not even quote the 725 line saying that it was too expensive (let me decide that) at $2K an opening, which I doubt. I was not terribly impressed with the vinyl frame though from the color chips I suspect they're made by PlyGem.
I had gotten a quote from a Uniframe (from Great Lakes/PlyGem) rep and was impressed with the performance numbers, the block and tackle operation of the sashes and the pricing. There were no games with the pricing (I realize this has to do with the rep, not the window, but from other posts it appears the Serious' marketing gambit is to post performance of their fiberglass line and then switch to vinyl when selling). Incidentally, I have had a bunch of Great Lakes casements and awnings in for nearly twenty years and am every pleased. The Uniframe looks to be a step up and has some astonishing performance numbers. I am replacing 14 large double hung (48" X 65") and Uniframe will make them in their triple-glazed, high performance option. Incidentally, their vinyl is fiberglass reinforced. I'll keep you folks posted as I progress...
He most likely showed you the old Q2 window made by Kensington and now by Serious. I'm not impressed with it

The uniframe was an outstanding window when I was a PG dealer. I haven't seen one in a while so I have no idea what they are like now

constructionlife777
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Serious Windows

#32 Post by constructionlife777 »

Site Admin...
Ok what is it that I can shed light on as Serious windows are one we carry?

buddy11
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY

Re: Serious Windows

#33 Post by buddy11 »

constructionlife777 wrote:Site Admin...
Ok what is it that I can shed light on as Serious windows are one we carry?
Which line?

cancoi
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:46 am

Re: Serious Windows

#34 Post by cancoi »

Personally, I'd be interested in the 525 line

Windowspecialist
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Serious Windows

#35 Post by Windowspecialist »

My my, that all made for interesting reading. I have worked in windows for 14 years. I'm based in europe. I have to this stage worked on houses up to 7000sqft that run for €150 per yr in sub degree tempatures with cutting edge window technologies. I think a lot of people seem to be missing the point with 'Serious Windows'. They are pioneering and making a stagnent industry, move in a time when it needs to. America needs this type of change and green jobs are important. I work for a company that have gone through the rigerous tests of passiv haus and worked on the technologies. We have evolved more in 1 year than we did in the 30 years prior. Whereas I am not sold on all of 'Serious Windows' pitches and claims, I do recognise they have one of the better window systems available today in the US. Serious are the pioneers that will be thanked by every entrepneur that proceeds them and for that they deserve your support. If they have not got their costs in order however they need to perfect a single craft, windows, instead of average dryline, windows and software.

When support for low energy housing emerged in Europe, large corporations sat up, took note and we have seen the price of carbon neutral housing fall from €160/190 per sqft to €103per sqft. This ultimately puts more disposable income in the pocket of the home owners, money that is presently being wasted on power which is a right to all people IMO. Not an industry that should sit with the second highest profit margin in 'The Fotune 500'.

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Windows on Washington
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Serious Windows

#36 Post by Windows on Washington »

Serious Materials certainly has driven some innovation. That being said, they did not invent any of the technology in their window. They have simply put it together with other technologies.

Europe is well ahead of the US in terms of residential energy efficiency and technologies, but we are fast catching up.

The more reasonable question is how can existing structures be upgraded to make them much more efficient at much lower price points.

The idea of a window who's cost is over $2,000 before installation has zero application value for 99.9% of the home in existence today.

Passivhaus is a great leap in residential construction, but again, it represents a minuscule amount of the buildings that are in existence or being built today. Should a large number of the concepts of passivhaus be integrated into to more regular construction, absolutely.

If we were really "serious" about reducing residential energy consumption in this country, we would be retrofitting every home. That would reduce the carbon emissions by leaps an bounds as compared to Wind, Solar, or other renewable sources of energy.

The difference is that insulation and air sealing are not sexy. You can show them off to your neighbors or brag about your 5 layer glass. I would put Serious windows at about number 95 out of 100 things that could be done to a home to reduce consumption and 100 out of 100 if you were factoring in return on investment calculations.

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toddinmn
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Serious Windows

#37 Post by toddinmn »

What are there air infiltration #'s?

handyman
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:12 pm

Re: Serious Windows

#38 Post by handyman »

Does anyone else worry about Heat Mirror? I understand this is what Serious Materials uses to get those super low U-Values ( quad glazing with Heat Mirror). Also that the window costs three times more than vinyl windows. Or that the Serious Materials warranty does not include labor? I know there were a number of lawsuits involving Heat Mirror a few years ago. Has the technology improved?

masterext
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Location: Window Pro-Serves All of Northern New Jersey. Bergen, Morris, Union, Essex, Passaic, Sussex Counties

Re: Serious Windows

#39 Post by masterext »

why in the world would Serious warranty labor? they make windows,they don't install.
there were problems with heat mirror,thats what keeps me away from that technology. supposedly alot has improved but i can not take that risk. perfectly happy with soft coat lowE.

buddy11
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY

Re: Serious Windows

#40 Post by buddy11 »

I sold heat mirror for many years. Never had a seal failure, not one. Southwall Technologies licences companies to produce HM IGU's. I believe the lawsuits were a result of poor assembly not faulty product. That said Serious is not worth the money IMO.

handyman
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:12 pm

Re: Serious Windows

#41 Post by handyman »

I believe the labor portion of a manufacturers warranty is to cover the labor to repair a defect, not the installation. This is a common component of most high end window manufacturers, Andersen being the notable exception.

windowsRme
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: Serious Windows

#42 Post by windowsRme »

I have been handling suspended film windows for almost 10 years now and have really had minimal seal failures, I would say the same rate of seal failure that I've seen in modern low E dual pane windows. I did have a conversation with a Cardinal glass rep. one time about the history of heat mirror. He claimed that they experimented with it about 30 years ago and several other companies as well but their difficulty was in the seal technology and they abandoned it. There were some manufacturers that continued working on the technology and got it. I personally have the old Kensington, now Serious windows in my home for the last 8 years or so and the performance has been nothing short of superb. The heating and cooling used dropped dramatically and the sound levels, especially on the one side of my house were cut substantially. We still look for the condensation on the windows on those sub zero mornings and are amazed at how little there is especially when comparing it to the ice I used to have on the old wood windows that rotted out after 15 years.

buddy11
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY

Re: Serious Windows

#43 Post by buddy11 »

I sold the Q2 from kensington for two years. I loved the HM, but the window was less tha stellar. They were fraught with issues, sash droop, lock issues, air leakage, QC problems, etc. The new Q2 has a pocket sill :(

JHD57
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:59 am

Re: Serious Windows

#44 Post by JHD57 »

Caveat Emptor

Seven months ago we installed Serious 925 series windows and an 8’ x 8’ patio door in our new home in Northern Maryland. It has been a disaster and the worst decision/investment we made in the house we are renovating. Trying to work with Serious to make the windows and door weather tight has been Kafkaesque. They are, by turns, dismissive, disbelieving, denying, and, ultimately, disappearing. I would not buy a product from them again under any circumstance.

We should have known we had a problem from the moment our windows arrived. To start, several of the windows were larger than the rough openings that had been specified (only by fractions of an inch, but we had to rebuild several of the openings to accommodate the oversized units). As we later learned, part of the issue is that they believe in giving the builder a very small gap between the frame and the framing. Great if you have new construction, not so great if you are working with existing openings. Oh, and don’t expect them to confirm consistent angles on windows that don’t have 90 degree angles. Their ordering program doesn’t use or display angles so if you are off on your measurements height and width measurements, they won’t catch it and neither will you. When they are building the window they won’t attempt to confirm the discrepancy.

The frame for the large patio door was all-fiberglass construction, held together by #6 screws secured to the foam insulation. With those little tiny heads, you’d be amazed how easy it is for a #6 screw head to pull through 3/32” fiberglass when you are setting a 4’ x 8’ glass panel in it. The frame itself is only finished on three sides – the exterior wall of the frame is just the foam insulation. It looks like something you might receive on a early-era vinyl door frame. Cheap, really cheap. It has actually broken three times now, once during the initial installation, again when a workman stumbled on the threshold and pushed the base 3/16” out which tore the side frame, and finally we are seeing pieces breaking off the finger joint between the panels.

Actually, as long as we are discussing the patio door, IT IS DESIGNED TO LEAK, yup that’s straight from Serious. It relies on weep holes to remove the water that runs down the fixed pane out of the channel holding the pane, but if the channels can’t keep up with the rain, the water collecting in the channel flows into your house. BY DESIGN. Serious does not consider this to be a problem (not a defect and “not covered by warranty”) so we’ve replaced the door with one from another company. A $10,000 mistake on our part it seems.

Back to the windows – about a third of them leaked too. We had Serious’ representative out six times in five months. He finally ended up applying a bead of sealant all the way around each window where it meets the frame and smoothed it with his finger. So now all the windows shine along the edge where you are looking through the glass and sealant.

If you do need a technician, this is sort of how it goes working with Serious, it is a 12-step process: (1) we observe a problem and contact their customer service person. (2) They say it is poor installation. (3) We send pictures showing proper installation and the results of our own water test isolating the source of the leak. (4) They argue that the water test isn’t valid. (5) They arrange for a formal water test. (6) We wait. (7) The fellow comes and does the test. (8) We wait. (9) They confirm that the window leaks and order a service call. (10) We wait. (11) The technician fixes the leak. (12) It rains again and another window leaks. (13) Cycle begins again and takes about a month for each cycle.

What can we say about the experience that has been positive? The glass is terrific and insulates beautifully. The house is very comfortable and easy to heat.

It is finally warming up here and we will get our first rain here since December. They are calling for an inch and a half tomorrow. I’m not placing bets, but I’m getting the towels ready.

Skydawggy.
Posts: 1193
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Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Serious Windows

#45 Post by Skydawggy. »

Ouch!!!!

Who measured the windows?

This only confrims what I have tried to tell consumers...you can put a really good piece of glass in a window and that doesn't make it a quality product. Nor is selection of a great window enough. It has to be the whole package. Good contractor, good manufacturer, good installation, good customer service. Frankly, it sounds like the old Kensington Window made by a company with even less enthusiasm for quality and customer service. Why am I not surprised?

Seriously, I'm really appalled by your experience. Sounds like you're dealing with The Three Stooges.

How thoroughly did you check out the contractor? What made you decide on Serious?

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