Lifetime warranty

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TLHWINDOW
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:20 pm
Location: North Florida

Re: Lifetime warranty

#16 Post by TLHWINDOW »

Tryin not to step in the dog poo, but like in the State of Florida, a lifetime warranty can mean lifetime of the product. Min. is 7 years I believe.

Thats why is always good to read the warranty of the manufacture.

buddy11
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY

Re: Lifetime warranty

#17 Post by buddy11 »

Skydawggy wrote:It's pathetic the the extent that Renewal salesmen will go to to justify the weakest warranty in the window industry. 20 years on glass seal, 2 years on labor and 10 years on the product.

http://www.renewalbyandersen.com/custom ... fault.aspx

I guess if this was the best my company could do, I'd be left with no other response except to try and attack the warranty of my competitors. (Not that I would ever work for a company as deceptive as Renewal by Andersen). Sad...really sad.

If I sold Andersen I wouldn't offer any warrantee :mrgreen:

jrm74
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Lifetime warranty

#18 Post by jrm74 »

Exactly what I thought would happen. Assumptions, attacks, and insults and forget about the examples listed.

And the baseless claim that I attacked any window company or work for any specific company is disingenious at best. All I did was provide an example directly from a manufacturer often listed on this site and how the warranty goes down to 50% after 10 years for a second owner and I asked why.

Homesealed, i appreciated you response as it was actually respectful and thoughtful, not just trying to tar an feather like the others.

Buddy, I have to ask this as your backing up the claim that a 20 year glass warranty and 10 years non glass is the worst in the business, isn't that the exact warranty Marvin offered until this year? Was Marvin a different window then? Any better or worse? Was that the second worst warranty in the business?

Windows4U, Didn't know about the starmark warranty because it is not listed on their website. If that means I'm full of it in your eyes, so be it. I tried to say most in the whole post and missed that one, D'oh.

And Sky, you said "Most warranties I have read state the original purchaser is covered and the warranty is fully transferrable to 1 subsequent owner." I find it very hard to believe that you have never read the Sunrise warranty which I quoted directly in my original post. You're usually spot on with some great info so I simply cannot believe this slipped by you as you're apparently claiming. Don't you often reccomend Sunrise.

And FWIW, I have no problem with the Sunrise, Anderson, or Marvin windows at all. Simply stating what the warranty covers in not an attack last time I checked.

The OP asked what the deal was on the "lifetime" and I tried to help them understand that you have to read all warranties for youself and learn about the manufacturers that stand behind them.

Let the insults and assumptions continue..............

Skydawggy.
Posts: 1193
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Lifetime warranty

#19 Post by Skydawggy. »

I'll just take this one since it's directed at me.
And Sky, you said "Most warranties I have read state the original purchaser is covered and the warranty is fully transferrable to 1 subsequent owner." I find it very hard to believe that you have never read the Sunrise warranty which I quoted directly in my original post. You're usually spot on with some great info so I simply cannot believe this slipped by you as you're apparently claiming. Don't you often reccomend Sunrise.
I stand by what I've said that "MOST" warranties I have read are fully transferable. I didn't single out any company in particular. Our main brand happens to be Simonton, who has one of the strongest warranties available. Our company will also provide free labor and repair if the customer has any issue with the window whatsoever but, we don't transfer that part of it. I will let those who are most familiar with the Sunrise warranty speak for themselves. I only recommend Sunrise based on NFRC and AAMA ratings as well as the input from the Pro's on here who are dealers. I have no reason to doubt their experience. If you search my posts you will see that I usually stay out of discussions about Sunrise B/C there are many who post here that are more knowledgeable than I am.

If it helps, here's the Sunrise Warranty.


http://www.sunrisewindows.com/warranty.html

Skydawggy.
Posts: 1193
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Lifetime warranty

#20 Post by Skydawggy. »

JRM74

In fact I really don't have a problem with most of your post other than I disagree with your insinuation that the big 3's warrantys are better than other manufacturers simply because the glass seal is 20 years from date of manufacture. Reputable window manufacturers of quality windows have much lower issues with glass seals than some of the lesser quality manufacturers.

buddy11
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY

Re: Lifetime warranty

#21 Post by buddy11 »

Buddy, I have to ask this as your backing up the claim that a 20 year glass warranty and 10 years non glass is the worst in the business, isn't that the exact warranty Marvin offered until this year? Was Marvin a different window then? Any better or worse? Was that the second worst warranty in the business?


Yes it was a horrible warrantee. The infinity dealers screamed until they changed it. Afterall, they needed to compete with the "lifetime" warrantees on the market. Andersen may follow suit and then what? Will your RBA warrantee be as worthless as the other lifetime warrantees? Careful what you say, it may come back to bite you when you have to defend the very warrantee you're presently killing.

Notice however, I didn't challenge you on your "lifetime" rant nor did anyone else, really.

Skydawggy.
Posts: 1193
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Lifetime warranty

#22 Post by Skydawggy. »

I'm trying to figure out why the transferableness of a window warranty is that big of a deal to begin with? What other product can you buy that has a Lifetime Warranty, period. My TV, stereo, kitchen appliances, furniture, HVAC system, automobile etc. didn't come with lifetime warranties and in fact I was required to pay extra just to buy a 5 year extended warranty on some items. Nothing lasts for ever and I know we, at the very least, explain the warranty to our customers before they purchase. Most are very happy that they are covered as long as they own their home and consider it a bonus that the next owner is covered. I have never had a warranty sell a window for me.

jrm74
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Lifetime warranty

#23 Post by jrm74 »

Thanks for the more measured responses, I truly appreciate it. I dig you guys and the info you provide, and I mean that.

I think Buddy's post really explained it. Marvin did not change the window, it is no better than it was before the warranty changed but it now allows dealers to compete with the "lifetime" claims.

That means it is exactly about a sales tool, correct?

And I know most homeowners don't care as long as they are covered. I simply think when folks see or hear blanket statements that Lifetime warranties are better than 20 years, it leads them (and is designed) to think it is a better product. But as Marvin proved with their switch, nothing changed that made it a better window than it was before. That is exactly the point in my view and I'll admit, it's gret marketing.

"From the LA Times Home Remodeling “Pardon our Dust”
How long do we live in our houses?
I've been concerned for some time that we all move so often. The National Association of Realtors told me recently that we now sell our homes and move an average of every six years, rather than the seven-year statistic we've heard quoted so long."


So in the end if folks move on average every 6 years, then on average a 20 year warranty that can transfer with the house will outperform a "lifetime" warranty if it only transfers once. Can we at least agree on that?

Skydawggy.
Posts: 1193
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Lifetime warranty

#24 Post by Skydawggy. »

Problem is, as in the case of Renewal by Andersen, the warranty on the window is only 10 years. I'm hard pressed to understand why you think a 20 year glass seal warranty and 10 years parts and materials with wear and tear excluded, is a better warranty than a 2 owner transferable warranty. Bottom line is if the consumer purchases a good quality window, it's unlikely they will have a problem within 20 years. Perhaps it shouldn't even be called a warranty at all? Perhaps a better term would be Insurance?

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HomeSealed
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin

Re: Lifetime warranty

#25 Post by HomeSealed »

Do the 20 yr warranties of Anderson, Pella, etc have unlimited transferrability? The funny thing about that question is I have sold a lot of Pella windows over the years but the question is so irrelevant to anything that I don't know the answer. Further, if it does have that provision, I'm sure it also has proration. After 12-15 and a couple ownership changes, what value does that warranty really have. In fact, the paperwork will probably have been lost by that point and at the 2nd and 3rd ownership transfer, they will probably be unaware that a warranty even exists... I disagree that the warranty term has nothing to do with the life expectancy of the product. A 20 yr warranty doesn't go beyond 20 yrs no matter what, whereas a lifetime warranty will have to honor a percentage(albeit small) of product that has been in service for 20, 30 years or more. A wood product could NEVER offer a lifetime warranty. That being said, I highly doubt that there are a whole lot of warranty claims past 15 or 20yrs for any replacement window, so once again, who cares. It is true that the primary function of a lifetime warranty is as a sales tool, however I just don't see your point in trying to discredit it's validity. I don't think anybody(including you) would argue with the fact that as a consumer, your primary concern is the warranty protection that you will receive, with a small consideration for transferrabilty(once) as a feature when you sell your home. Thus, it performs exactly as advertised.

buddy11
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: Lower Hudson Valley NY

Re: Lifetime warranty

#26 Post by buddy11 »

It could be argued that the RBA warrantee is used as a sales tool as well.

Mr. and Mrs. Jones.. What is lifetime? My lifetime, yours? Let's be real here. These lying, cheating, no good vinyl companies all sell "lifetime" warrantees... and so on and so forth

We get it :roll:

Oh and BTW Marvin improved it's patented coating process, upgraded the hardware and convinced Cardinal to extend it's warrantee. So it's not in fact "the same window" as it used to be...

ConnYankee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:31 am

Re: Lifetime warranty

#27 Post by ConnYankee »

My first foray into the replacement window market, and my first post at this great site...tho I feel a bit beat up by both! Just slogged thru the 2 pages of warranty discussion above, and its clear that the widow biz is extremely competitive! Greatly appreciative that, in the midst of a good amount of arguing, most of the pro's here are fact-oriented and want to get at the truth of the matter.

As a newbie consumer in search of good quality and good value, I have come to these preliminary conclusions: 1) there are a number of decently made windows out there; and 2) whatever the window is, good installation is critical.

Accordingly, to me, warranty has become a pretty big issue, and may very well determine the purchase. I have read two warranties of the four companies that have come to my house, and questioned all. The ones I've read were presented to me as a specific selling point: they cover lifetime parts and labor. I specifically asked if that meant that in ten years, if my bay window sagged, would they repair free of cost, and was told yes. This is in contrast to the one contractor I interviewed, who clearly said no to this scenario--its a very limited warranty (30 days?) for labor and 1-year for parts...

Bottom line: am I being sold a bill of goods with the "comprehensive" lifetime warranty?

Those pointing out that the average owner moves every 6 years, and is not concerned about transferability may be correct, but the fact that a hidden defect, or even wear and tear will be fully covered, is HUGE.

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

Re: Lifetime warranty

#28 Post by Window4U (IL) »

A sagging bow window is an installation fault, not a manufacturer's defect. The installation companies labor warranty would cover this. If they are only offering 30 days then take them out of consideration for your business.

A labor warranty warrants the job was done correctly and should be at least 10 years. After all, you either installed it correctly or you didn't.
A service warranty is also given by the installer and covers labor for future service from manufacturer warranted problems. The length of this may vary as service calls are very expensive for companies. Both labor and service may be within the same installer warranty.

ConnYankee
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:31 am

Re: Lifetime warranty

#29 Post by ConnYankee »

Thanks W4U, for the distinction in the warranties--I'm going to quiz the installer about that. If I got a 10-year labor warranty from him, I'd probably be satisfied, all other things being equal.

Still wondering, however, if those salesmen with the "lifetime coverage" are puffing. Some folks on other sites (esp. those with "complaints" as the focus) have relayed examples of poor service when problems were reported, but I see no evidence that the warranties are being outright evaded.

JScott
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Lifetime warranty

#30 Post by JScott »

I believe you should read the Magneson-Moss warranty act of 1978 which is basically the horses mouth instead of throwing a dart at the wall.

Much of the info above is correct; however...read the section on lifetime warranties and let us know what you find. 8)

:mrgreen:

PS- I may have the name of the act mispelled. The consumer protection agency web site may have a link.

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