Renewal by Anderson

Ask replacement window questions & get answers!
Message
Author
kemmerer
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:48 am

Renewal by Anderson

#1 Post by kemmerer »

I need to replace 35 windows in a 2 story home with alumium dual glazed windows. Siding is lapboard that abuts the window frame with NO trim around the window. Inside is stained wrapped material around window,

I have discounted the full replacement option because of the lapboard on the outside and wood wrapped inside.

However, the vinyl insert is not an appropiate color for my house + I don't want to loose all the window volume (size) that implies.

I've looked at the Anderson Renewal product and like it except for the price of about $1,000 per window installed.

Options?? How is the Anderson Renewal product??

I also need to install 4 new windows along with a remodel in the next few months. What to do in short term re: eventual change to all windows in the house.

Thanks folks.

George

COSteve
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:40 pm

Doubt you will find much love for Andersen Renewal here.

#2 Post by COSteve »

I am in the same boat. The price you quote sounds better than what I was original quoted from Andersen. I do like the construction of the Andersen windows, but I think the price is a bit high. The warranty sounds great.

The negative that you will see here seems to center around brittleness of the fibrex (should only be a problem during installation and handling), inconvenient tilt feature compared to other manufacturers, and high price. There also seems to be some complaints of seal issues and questions as the the long term durability of the fibrex. My guess is that quality issues would be taken care of by Andersen's warranty. They are a huge company, and from most of my research, they stand behind their product. You will always find vocal negative reviews, as most people who have good experiences don't bother to report them.

Personally, I believe I will be going with another manufacturer for various reasons, but the Andersen product is a close second.

WVUGUY
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:07 am

Wow, that's quiite a list of negatives

#3 Post by WVUGUY »

Brittleness, wacky tilt, seal problems, durability concerns, high price......man, that's one helluva list. Why would you consider anything with such along list of possible concerns ????

Dan the Window Man
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:16 pm

#4 Post by Dan the Window Man »

George,

One option to consider for about half the price (including installation) are sash replacement kits. They will offer you:
-Virtually NO glass loss!
-your interior wood trim stays untouched
-High Performance Glass - Low E2 & argon
-real wood sash available with 22 exterior painted colors or heavy guage exterior cladding in many colors
-block and tackle balance for smooth easy operation
-compression fit jambliners for a weather tight seal
-tilt in for easy cleaning
-many grill options (between the glass, wood snap in, and "mock" cutlite called PDL)
Go to kolbe-kolbe.com to find a dealer near you. You won't be dissaponted!

I've dealt with Renewal and not impressed at all!

Good luck

Dan

earwax
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:52 am
Location: West Coast

#5 Post by earwax »

I agree with the replacement sash. I have seen a good product called a Zap Pack from Caradco. The company has been around for years and are now part of the Jeld-Wen company. I have seen them installed and they look great.

joe c
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:35 pm

renewal response

#6 Post by joe c »

the sash kits are a faux replacement and do not qualify as a window replacement via energy efficiency guidelines..check with p,g and e...the sash liners are vinyl...a replacement window needs a frame...

joe c
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:35 pm

renewal by andersen response

#7 Post by joe c »

kolbe and kolbe? caraldco? do a web search for complaints vs the rba product...these two products do not stand the test of time...now read this...Andersen Corporation has successfully been active in the window and patio door manufacturing business since 1903 (six months before the Wright Brothers flew at Kitty Hawk, N.C.)
The main focus of the first hundred years has been innovation of materials to create windows that are different and better.
In the 1950’s, after we rejected aluminum as a framing material and turned away from the concept of a metal clad window, we developed the first hollow vinyl window in consideration of making a low maintenance product.

However, in testing, we found that vinyl by itself is not very strong.
Although a good insulator and low maintenance, it is posed to fatigue under light, heat and exposure to pressure (from the wind). Although several variations of this design were tried, the same results were shown.

Wood is a good insulator and strong but requires maintenance. The idea of combining these two materials was intriguing yet a challenge. The challenge is that these two materials have very different physical characteristics.
Snap-on or Glue-on vinyl clad will fail for the very same reasons as hollow vinyl. (Some of the manufacturers you mention have been down this path) Only through locking vinyl and engineered wood together using two naturally and environmentally safe elements (heat and pressure) have and continue to work. This concept has been in the Andersen family of products since 1966 as is today. We estimate over 170 million window units in service today.
Now to Fibrexâ
We realize that wood is a natural resource with a finite supply. In responding to this, we developed a better way to use the wood that we have. Again, using reengineered lumber, we take off-culls from our milling operations and create a wood “flourâ€￾. Although commonly misunderstood, sawdust cannot be used in making Fibrex. If it was, it would catch fire in our manufacturing equipment and would be irregular in its performance when combined with thermoplastic polymers.
(A note about thermoplastic polymers: yes, you are generally correct. A thermoplastic polymer is vinyl. But as you are aware from your knowledge of materials, all are not the same.)
These also have to be engineered to be stable to the elements listed above. Therefore we choose to use the term “thermoplastic polymerâ€￾ as a grouping of vinyl materials specific to Andersen Corporation standards, for use with our engineered lumber types and manufacturing equipment.
This is one of the ways we can manufacture this product in colors (both light and dark) that will perform and why vinyl windows are usually restricted to only lighter colors)
Again, using heat and pressure we are able to lock vinyl and wood together in a fibrous state to form Fibrex. The use of engineered lumber and vinyl in this form allows us to make over 690 million window combinations.
(A note about fiberglass: We did look at and work with fiberglass. Although having attributes, we did find that there are both environmentally unsafe issues, health issues and maintenance issues with this material. It is different but in the long run, not better.
This is due to how fiberglass is made. Thermal molding vs. pultrusion basically. One is slightly better than the other but the same results are given.Many people are using this.
Milgard is one. However, more nationally known Marvin and Pella are venturing into this also)
Some conclusions: We have been using vinyl and engineered lumber successfully for over 40 years…well before the window industry discovered vinyl.

Fibrex is the next generation of using engineered lumber and vinyl. Although this may be new to the industry, we have been working and testing this material since the late 1970’s….before fiberglass was discovered in the window industry.
Some are using fiberglass. Some are using vinyl.
Only one has figured out how to do it right.
Andersen Corporation

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

#8 Post by Window4U (IL) »

[quote="joe c"
Some are using fiberglass. Some are using vinyl.
Only one has figured out how to do it right.
Andersen Corporation[/quote]

:shock::?: .......:(....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :oops: :oops: :oops: Oh, sorry,... you were serious, weren't you?

E-Z
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: North San Francisco Bay Area

#9 Post by E-Z »

JOE C So if i understand correctly Andersen according to you since you speak for Andersen Corporation considers vinyl itself and i quote

"However, in testing, we found that vinyl by itself is not very strong.
Although a good insulator and low maintenance, it is posed to fatigue under light, heat and exposure to pressure (from the wind). Although several variations of this design were tried, the same results were shown."

End Quote. So why does Andersen corporation in light of the above stated still uses vinyl to wrap their door frames on their patio doors specially on their Permashield Doors? I consider it counter productive to posses research that indicates that vinyl performs poorly against the elements but yet still wrap and utilize vinyl extensively on their products even when these are exposed to the exterior. Unless is your opinion or your sales tactic to bash vinyl in order to sell Fibrex to customers that otherwise may not be aware of the extensive use of just vinyl that Andersen still has on their products. If Fibrex is the best thing since sliced bread how come it's only warranted for 10 years? From what you say this fantastic material should be warranted for 3 lifetimes. Specially since it has been in the works since 1970's like you say.

earwax
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:52 am
Location: West Coast

#10 Post by earwax »

E-Z,

You da man. Call it like it is.

joe c
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:35 pm

vinyl in and of itself

#11 Post by joe c »

as the sole material for a window frame is what the reference is to....you should know that...a thin extrusion of vinyl with an acrylic component is not going to warp a wood patio door...but a vinyl only patio door will...the support rba gave you in getting started is really appreciated huh ez?...it amazes me how anti-andersen this board is...you should know better that the renewal program is based on customer satisfaction and expert installation...good luck with your plastic only windows

Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

#12 Post by Bill »

After reading all the conclusions Anderson came to after their research on vinyl you would think that they would not use vinyl at all. And the sales tactic with Renewal is to convince you that you are crazy to buy, vinyl but the fact is that Anderson does make an all vinyl windows in Canada ( Dashwood By Anderson ) that has some distribution in New York. Check the web site www.dashwood.com they have nothing bad to say about vinyl their.

E-Z
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: North San Francisco Bay Area

#13 Post by E-Z »

So that's the word Joe? Now according to you www.eazywindows.com got help or support by RBA to get started? As far as i know i got paid to do a job and i did it well in return. As a sub contractor when i was installing for you guys we came in 5 times in the top 3 crews out of 16 crews on the customer surveys. I looked at my posting and i do not believe i made any reference to their customer program or service. I, like a lot of pro's in this board that have installed for Rba agree that we were treated real good by Rba. I had never worked for a company that had their stuff together from an installer standpoint like Rba.

And this board is not anti Andersen, but the world is not Black and White and neither are windows. There is an application and a place for Fibrex,Fiberglass,Vinyl,Wood,......... you leave yourself open to criticism by misinforming the buying public to promote your product. When you should state the facts and let the customer make an educated decision.

You said

"In the 1950’s, after we rejected aluminum as a framing material and turned away from the concept of a metal clad window, we developed the first hollow vinyl window in consideration of making a low maintenance product."

But is in true that your Bay Window is an Aluminum Clad? I guess 54 years of knowledge does not apply right?

E-z

joe c
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:35 pm

the rba bay is aluminum clad..but the window is fibrex

#14 Post by joe c »

renewal by andersen is continuosly bashed by this board..i am just responding back with our reasoning and methodology...warranties cost money and the vinyl warranties are not what they seem...as for the bay windows? the frame is aluminum clad..for support...the windows are fibrex...there are an awful lot of very happy renewal customers..many of which you've installed...it is a shame that you have to turn this way

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

Re: the rba bay is aluminum clad..but the window is fibrex

#15 Post by Window4U (IL) »

[quote="joe c"]renewal by andersen is continuosly bashed by this board.[quote]

Joe, the Renewal window does not get "bashed" on this board. (Though you seem to a lot)
People on this board such as myself, EZ, and others who have worked for Renewal in the past have had an opportunity to see the product up close, see its strengths and it's weaknesses, and reply honestly with truthful opinions when asked. All of us have said that Anderson Renewal runs a first class installation department and we all have said we were well treated while employees, just like EZ's post states.
Sorry, but personally I tell it like I see it no matter who it is, even if I'm a dealer of the product I'm giving advice on. That's what we are here for, to give advice to people asking of our first hand knowledge.
If you or your higher ups don't like the honest opinion, then tough. Build a better window. (one that Anderson will post the air infiltration rates on)
Oh, by the way Joe, do you happen to know anything about a certain Renewal dealer threatening a poster on this board for espousing his opinions? Just curious.

Post Reply