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 Post subject: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 9
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Hello,
We just. Spent a small fortune on 27 new replacement windows. And siding. 40k worth.
There is air coming in around interior trim. Not just cold...actually a breeze. This is on many windows. The contractor said the job is done and the breeze is from a pre existing condition. All he will do is caulk. Around stained trim. Can this be right?
Also they used Dow weatmate house wrap...they did not tape seams..only stapled. Down says to tape... is this a hit and run job....I have pictures if that helps.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:26 am
Posts: 860
Location: Texas - Houston & Austin
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Pictures would help. Since you say it's coming in around the interior trim, my first guess would be uninsulated space between the window and the framing. This is why most of the pros here insist on using minimal expanding foam around the perimeter during installation to seal off leak points.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 pm
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The problem is no insulation between window and frame. The installer showed me that. The problem is that they said insulating between window and frame is not part of the installation.
They say that since it is not done correctly before, they would have to cut back sheet rock and insulate on both sides of the stud. Am I wrong for thinking this is a normal part of window replacement? When does it become an extra charge to insulate?

Thanks again...as soon as i figure out how to post pics I will.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Posts: 551
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area
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Just saw your response, sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 pm
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They did wrap the molding outside with new siding. I asked about new construction windows.. the windows are Serious brand..so not cheap.. they steered me away from new construction saying there is absolutely no benefit. I am pretty bummed out. We really spent all our savings on this job. We interviewed 4 contractors. They were the only ones to offer partial financing.

Thank you so much for taking time to reply. I know there are some very good craftsmen out there. Your good karma will pay off!!


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:16 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Illinois, Chicago suburbs
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The housewrap absolutely should have been taped. The air-sealing benefit you would have received from housewrap is not there at all now. They might as well of stapled the sunday funnies to the wall. Not only that but if water leaks in behind the siding you don't have a proper water barrier either.
As far as the insulating between jamb and stud, this is not normally done with inserts. But, if they would have air-sealed your home properly a bunch of that air wouldn't be leaking in to start with.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:08 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:20 pm
Posts: 273
Location: North Florida
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I might have missed it, where do you live (state).

Definetly should have taped the edges. Pictures would be good to see what kind of setup you have.

Sounds like you might have gotten "robbed". Its unfortanate because these people give good contractors a bad rep.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 1793
Location: Milwaukee & Madison area
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Just to clarify, they did insulate around the new window in the opening that it sits, correct? It is true that if the air leakage is between the original frame and the stud, it isn't part of a pocket style installation to insulate that. The really crappy part though is that they talked you out of a new construction style, considering that would have been addressed in that type of installation. I would say that they is probably some suspect workmanship in the siding/flashing area to let in any measurable amount of air. Even without the insulation, you should not really have air leakage if it was done properly.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:22 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 pm
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Hello all,
Thanks for all the replies. Many of these points I have argued with the installer, tape.. insulation, air leakage..they keep telling me I am wrong or making excuses.
To answer some of the questions: We live in NJ. I don't know if they insulated when they installed.. .most of the work was done while I was at work. I do have pictures of the stapled wrap. They insist this is they way they have done all their work.
I will not mention the installers name as he has promise to come back and Take care of this. They also were paid in full for the job since the balance was to be financed and was not to be charged until I signed off.. I never did sign anything and they charged me the balance.

I am not sure what to do .. I paid for a premium job and did not get one. I would like to receive money back but I know i will have to go to court with them.
I could always address this in the court of "public opinion."

We are lost and fear that we made poor choice because of the attractive finance option. ...

I may post pictures soon and reveal the culprits.

Thanks
Again
CyberGhost


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:35 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 9
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I forgot to mention.. they used foam backing on the siding.. not the flat kind.. the kind that form fits the siding.. The cuts were not very tight as was the case with everything they did.

Trying to be fair cause I gave the contractor this link. Again I will not name the company since we are still talking.

One question I have to any that have experienced this...Is the homeowner entitled to any type of compensation for things not done the right way as opposed to not done to code?


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:56 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 29
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You could try contacting your state attorney general's office. And, of course, the Better Business Bureau, although the AG office carries far more weight. I would try this as a last resort, though. If you're still talking, see if he'll make the corrections without too much bad blood.

Sorry to hear this, though. It's every homeowner's worst nightmare. I wish you much luck in resolving this.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:20 pm
Posts: 273
Location: North Florida
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Cyber, if this was a "loan" job, most companies must have a sign off before they will get paid by the loan company. I know becuase sometimes the owner will delay it and then I don't get paid. Check with the loan company, they should have on record you signing some papers for the money. If not then tell them you didn't sign off on the completed job and that is fraud.

This can be used against the installation company for leverage and if they still don't fix your issue, then you can go full boat with the AG.

Also, house wrap is suppose to be taped, especially at the windows and doors otherwise there is no way to stop the water. And just for the record of people reading this, foam backed vinyl is no better than foam board applied to the house, and if you tape the foam board on the house, you actually get better results becuase there are no gaps.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 9
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I have to say that all this info is great and depressing at the same time. Some may say this board is BS.......but no one that answered me is expecting anything in return..so that assures me that you are all just trying to help. Thank you!
If I may ask another question..
If I were to leave the wrap as it is...stapled.....and not taped or tight fit....and insulated from inside....would we be in danger of mold or serious damage to our home? I just don't know if I can compromise with the installer. I don't want to put anyone out on the street. ..I am sure they have families.....or will the insurance cover them. I just need to be realistic in defining the level of risk..we have small kids.


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Posts: 3411
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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As long as the housewrap is layered properly, you should not have an moisture issues on the large sections of the home.

If the flashing detail is not correct on the window, there is the chance of moisture infiltration. The Tyvek is not supposed to the the primary water management system and if they relied upon that solely, there are issues in your future.

If they used a flashing membrane around the window, you should be fine as the housewrap is not taped to the window in most applications.

Here is a good video on window flashing. The sill pan is overkill but a nice option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpqJxbk5qwc&feature=PlayList&p=BC6F8CB056387E5C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1


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 Post subject: Re: drafty new windows
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 9
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Oh my... nothing even close to that was done. These were replacement windows. So they installed all windows in a couple days. Then came back a few weeks later to rip old siding and do new siding.
They ripped, then flashed around windows with bent vinyl clad aluminum...no caulking...
Then applied house wrap..not all the way up to windows and not all the way under fascia boards.. some exposed wood seen.
Siding went up
Then they wrapped trim with vinyl clad.


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