well, can't swing the simonton 9800's - out of my $$$ range

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Benny
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:06 pm
Location: MN

well, can't swing the simonton 9800's - out of my $$$ range

#1 Post by Benny »

so instead I'm looking at the simonton 5500 and the simonton pro finish contractor slider. The rep at the building supply company said there's a marginal difference between the 2, any input on these 2 types?

The main differences between the 2 seems to be the integrated nailing flange on the pro finish vs the snap on flange for the 5500, the frame widths, which is around 5/16" diff., and the glass pack availability. (no ss & dbl strength glass available for the pro finish) I'm leaning toward the 5500 w/1" IG, SC low e, argon & superspacer, as the U rating is better with the superspacer, and the IG warranty is better on the 5500. Compared to an earlier quote for the great lakes gold, based on a couple of assumptions, the per window price seems to be the same as the GL gold.
Last edited by Benny on Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FenEx
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Illinois

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#2 Post by FenEx »

Benny

Your post is very confusing. Your source at the local building supply shop is incorrect if they supplied the information for you post. I don't even know where to begin. I suggest you find a few reputable dealers to properly present products and options.

Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

#3 Post by Bill »

Benny:

Go with the 5500, if you looked at a frame cut-away of the two you would see a real difference in wall thickness and chambers.

The Pro-Finish is designed as a builders grade window it’s better then many of the others that target this market but the 5500 is a good solid mid grade and a much better choice.

Bill

Benny
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:06 pm
Location: MN

#4 Post by Benny »

thanks for input Bill, I think you're probably right, you're not the first to post that construction grade windows aren't up to the standards of the retro fits.

fenex,

I edited my post because I got the feeling I wasn't supposed to put numbers up, but I am confused by your confusion :?: :)

Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

#5 Post by Bill »

Benny:

For someone who does not sell Simonton your post would be a bit confusing.

I read your post again and the only misinformation you received is that you can get Super Spacer and double strength glass in ProFinish I just checked my ordering program and I can select it with ¾ glass.

This may be new; I don’t remember this in the past.

Still stick to the 5500

Bill

Benny
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:06 pm
Location: MN

#6 Post by Benny »

Oh, the glass options could have been my misunderstanding not so much as misinformation given by the supplier. thanks.

My contractor today said that we really can't consider the pro finish since it only comes in 1/2" (or 1") size increments since it's a new const. window anyway, so were now down to the 5500.

Other than that, I checked out the 9800's again today just to review the differences between the 9800 and the 5500, and I don't see many. Other than the glass package, the only other thing I see is the sash handles are seperate pieces on the 9800 as opposed to a one piece handle on the 5500. Other than that, nothing I can see is that much different, but I have an untrained eye, there's probably things that I am overlooking.

I hope to find out today where the pricing will actually be on the 5500, I think I will be happy with this window. (finally, whew)

Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

#7 Post by Bill »

Benny:

Simonton will custom size ProFinish so you’re not stuck with just their call sizes.

Bill

Benny
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:06 pm
Location: MN

#8 Post by Benny »

well, I'm going to try to avoid getting the pro finish if I can, I like what I see with the 5500.

Benny
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:06 pm
Location: MN

#9 Post by Benny »

Question for you Bill, I take it that you deal Simonton windows, so I wanted to make sure that I am correct on the specs and options that I am looking at getting in the 5500 series.

Spoke to my contractor today, and he said it looks like the 5500's will run around $500 more than the quote I originally got for the Great Lakes Gold Hi-R+, which had 3/4" glass, intercept spacer, argon filled lowE2 (if I remember correctly).

These are the options on the windows:
shadow groove on sashes (std I believe)
superspacer w/dual pane 1" IG argon filled (is dual pane only offered with 1" IG? or can it also be 3/4"?)
dbl strength glass (does this mean laminated or thicker panes?)
soft coat lowE (I hope lowE2, but that's what I'm not sure of)
also having him price grids as well - I believe that pushes the u up to .31? (why do grids decrease the u factor?)

I am having him install with nailing fins, so it will be to rough opening. His price included extension jambs (do these windows automatically come with the ext jambs?)

And with the specs for the 1" IG shown on the website, it looks like it will have a u-factor of .28 - which seems to be pretty good overall for sliders (majority of my large windows are sliders)

the double hungs look like they have .31 u w/o grids & .35 with grids? seems like usually dbl hungs have better u ratings, why are these worse than the sliders? also surprisingly, the intercept spacer is showing a better u rating than the superspacer on the website, any inside info on this?

thanks in advance,
Ben

Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

#10 Post by Bill »

Benny:

Shadow Groove is the standard design in the 5500

(is dual pane only offered w/ 1â€￾ IG or can it also be ¾?) Dual pane refers to how many glass panels 2 if you’re asking can you get SS in ¾ IG for the 5500? The answer is no.

Dbl strength glass is just thicker glass

Low-E2 is the brand name for Cardinal Glass version of soft coat low-e; Simonton uses ProSolar Low-e SC by PPG

Grids decrease the u factor because you are introducing aluminum between the panes that conduct energy.

Extensions jambs are not available for the 5500 from Simonton your contractor will get them at a lumber yard

The U factor you stated of .28 for the slider with SS is incorrect its .31 w/o grids and .34 w/ grids and you would get a superior u factor w/ Super Spacer over intercept. If you see otherwise on Simonton’s site consider it an error.

I configured a 72 x 50 slider with and w/o grids the way you spec. and if you provide your e-mail I will send it to you; the energy performance numbers are listed

I hope this helps,
Bill

Benny
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:06 pm
Location: MN

thanks for the info!

#11 Post by Benny »

thanks for the info Bill, I appreciate it, so it looks like I'll be getting 1" IG, since I asked for the SS, kind of disappointed with the u factor though, I thought it would be better, not that .31 is bad, but it's average, but then again, it seems that the 5500 is considered an average to slightly above average window.
It seems that overall, the 5500 is recommended for mid range windows, more so than some others, unfortunately I just don't have the means to get the 9800's which is really what I wanted. I think I will still be satisfied with the 5500's, as they seem to closely match the 9800's in overall quality of construction.
So I would be safe to assume that if I'm looking for better energy performance, that I need to stay away from grids?

btw, an average size for my sliders is 54w x 48 h, my dbl hungs are around 30 w x 40 h
I think the main thing I'm going to gain is a good install, my current windows are inserts which were not insulated properly, they are bowing, and I also believe them to be a low grade window.

my email is bizzaro@charter.net

Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

#12 Post by Bill »

Benny:

The only way for a window to achieve U values down in the .22 .21 area is to introduce high end triple pane system.

The energy performance of the 5500 is about average but I believe structurally and mechanically it’s well above average. I go back to the day when we judged the quality of a vinyl window not by energy performance but by whether the window opened, closed and still locked two years after you installed it. Thankfully we have some well built vinyl windows today; but I still see many built quite poorly.

Bill

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