Window and Patio Newb - Assistance needed!

[sleuth]

Hey guys,

I need some help here. I need to replace some windows and patio door and help understanding the various brands, and terms used.

So far I have received estimates from (all are DH low e/argon w/ grids inside):
Lowes - (Atrium Reliabilt 3201) - Approx $300 /install
Window World - Said they are Alside windows, not sure which model - Approx $380 /install, with new metal casement - $1800 for Slider Patio Door install
Pella - I forgot the model - Approx $800 /install - $2000 for Slider Patio Door install
U.S. Window (local and and installs Alside, comparable would be Alside Sheffield) - Approx $700 /install, with new metal casement - $2300 for Slider Patio Door install
Champion - Approx $900 /install, with new metal casement - $2400 for Slider Patio Door install

My wife and I went through the ringer with these sales rep. Of course they will not rag on each other, the unspoken code of sales reps, but they were more than ready to tell us why there's was better. Some had a gimmicky presentation like you would see on TV. From my research they all get their glass from Cardinal. They are all low e/argon so they should all do the same thing and have the same energy rating. I guess what differentiates them from each other now? These are all vinyl, and I know they will expand/contract, so is vinyl density or some other reason the cause for markup? U.S. Window provided a cut out of their vinyl frame that showed insulation foam in the open gaps which he said is why his window is better. This will be a better insulator than air.

My heads spinning from trying to play catchup the past couple days. Reading about the hundreds, even thousands of brands out there. A few posts have talked about climate playing a factor in which window should be purchased. I'm located in Des Moines, IA. What should I be looking for? Can someone recommend a local dealer/installer and brand? My wife and I would like to move in 5-10 years so the value of the window is definitely a considerable factor. Of course, we may end up staying longer.

So if anyone would like to give me a crash course, I'm more than open! Thanks.

[Windows on Washington]

There can be a tremendous amount of showmanship in window sales depending on the company.

Unfortunately, none of the windows that you have on that list are materials that I would recommend. At the risk of saying that you need to extend the duration of the process, I highly recommend that you get a quote on a Soft-Lite, Sunrise, Gorell, or Simonton option.

None of those windows on your list are what I would consider stellar performers.

Whatever additional details you can provide about your window, installation, etc will help us more refine our advice and review of your quotes.

[sleuth]

Thanks for the response. I'll contact this manufacturers and find a local dealer.

Anything I should be looking for specific for the Iowa climate?

[sleuth]

My wife and I made a change and decided to purchase a high end patio door, and budget for good windows for the spring.

Just received my most recent quote for a Simonton Prism Platinum patio door.
- 72" x 80" Prism Platinum White Door Right Opening
- Assembled PD; Int. Handle White; Ext. Handle White
- Rough Opening Size; BOX; Colonial All White Flat
- 1" IGU Thickness; Intercept; Low E Softcoat (Prosolar); Argon Gas; Double Glazed; Temper All; Double Strength (1/8");
- Half Screen Fiberglass Extruded Screen mold
- Keyed multi point locks
- Corrosion Resist Roller/Glide Footbolt
- UI = 152"
- DP:50
- Test Number=B0690.01
- U-Factor:.32
- SHGC:.23

Price = $1,266.70 for just the door itself

The place that sells locally does not install and I have a contractor coming Monday for a bid. Good door and price? There's other dealers that sell the Profinish, Reflections and Impressions lines. Not sure what to think of the others yet, since I haven't checked them out. Thoughts? Keep in mind we want a good door, but don't want a budget buster. We are on a 5-10yr plan.

[sleuth]

Soft-lite and Gorell scheduled for tomorrow. Sunrise is on the books for next Monday.

So let me know what anyone thinks of the Simonton I posted, and whether going up to the Reflections line is value adding enough.

Looks like I'll have a lot more to report back in a few days. Hopefully by then I made a very smart decision

I also forgot to mention this originally. The door cutout size is 80.5" H x 73" W, so it's bigger than standard. I bet the builder just picked whatever cheap product he can find to put in there. So I know the install price will be higher, just because they have to build in the casing a little bit to fit the smaller door.

[HomeSealed]

Most high end manufacturers will do a custom door size for not a ton more $... I'd recommend finding a company that installs what they sell. Less blame to go around if anything comes up... Looks like you are on the right track with those next 3 appts, as well as with holding off on the windows until your budget allows a better product.... You might have these other companies measure the windows up as well though, you never know where the pricing will fall.

[EcoStar Remodeling]

+1 You will be better off purchasing the door through the installation company. If you have a warranty issue related to the door, and you didn't purchase it from the installer, he has no obligation to help you out. It would be proper to charge for a service call if the issue wasn't related to the install.

[Windows on Washington]

+1

If you can, keep all your business with the one contractor that you choose for the project. Probably your best bet.

[sleuth]

Soft-Lite Imperial LS - $1700 install
Double Pane with Super Spacer
7/8" insulated low e glass with argon
Center of Glass: R-3.84; U-Value .26
Optional Footbolt included
Upcharge for antique brass handle

Soft-Lite Imperial LS - $1900 install
Triple Pane with Super Spacer
7/8" insulated low e glass with argon
Center of Glass: R-6.66; U-Value .15
Optional Footbolt included
Upcharge for antique brass handle

Gorell 6400 series - $2400 install
Double pane, low e with argon
Everything is pretty much standard. I don't have all the ratings on me, but guys are probably familiar with the series.

Gorell said they wouldn't upcharge anymore for a custom fit door, or standard door with more labor intensive install. So that was actually kind of nice. However, you can see the price difference. Soft-Lite said they would give us a standard sized door and shrink the casing, and probably use a thicker trim around the door (estimated upcharge for a custom door is $400 with Soft-Lite). Its hard to picture what the end product would look like. We're leaning more towards the Soft-Lite at the moment. The local dealer is the only Soft-Lite vendor in the area. Its a family owned operation and sounded great. They do business through word of mouth. I feel comfortable with them and the price. Any thoughts from the professionals?

Also, we live off a busy road and he recommended the triple pane. It's more energy efficient and also provides extra noise reduction. The upcharge isn't that much, and we also live off a main road. So our backyard gets pretty noisey with the passing cars. However, I'm not sure how much noise reduction a triple pane provides over the double? Is it worth it? I mean, it's only a kitchen door. I can see getting triple panes for the family room and upstairs bedroom.

Thanks. Probaby one or two more updates as the estimates roll in.

EDIT: Can anyone tell me if there's a noticeable difference with the intercept spacer and super spacer in Soft-Lite windows? The guy really, really wanted me to buy it with super spacer. I'm not even sure what the upcharge is from the two. He just doesn't believe in the metal material.

[HomeSealed]

Have you seen both doors? Which do you prefer?... They would both serve you well. The value of the Gorell is boosted somewhat if you get the custom size, but it sounds like you really like the other (Softlite) installation company. I would give that a lot of weight, in fact, I'd probably base my decision on that given equal product choices (which these are pretty close).

[sleuth]

Is there an actual impact to efficiency if the casing is shrunk to fit the door? Over getting a custom fit door?

The Soft-Lite vendor and a couple others have assured me there is no loss of insulation or energy efficiency. It's more aesthetic. So the outside of the door will have a larger aluminum casing, while the inside will have a thicker trim.

[HomeSealed]

As long as the door is properly installed and those gaps properly insulated, there should be no difference in efficiency.

[TheWindowNerd]

you may have 3 spacer choices with SL.:
Intercept
Supercept
Superspacer
I would go with supercept if it is available on the slider.

[sleuth]

Sorry they only offer intercept and superspacer. Any recommendations on either of these two offerings?

I also had my official Simontin and Sunrise estimates. They were both around $2,900. I had the estimate provided by one of the more credible builders around here. His installers have received 'Master' accreditation through AAMA. Is this real? This seems outrageous, when I went to a local Simonton retailer who would sell me the same door for $1000-$1200 and the builder would charge me $2900 after install. $1900 for a patio door install!? Master or not, wow....

Anyway, there is a huge discrepancy here in estimates from $1700 from Soft-Lite to Gorrell in the middle, to Sunrise/Simontin. Can anyone tell me why this could be? Should I be weary of the family run/owned Soft-Lite dealer? They only have 1 negative feedback through the BBB in the past 3 years. A+ rating, so I feel like they would do a good install job.

[HomeSealed]

The Sunrise is a nice door, but $2900 seems excessive for white/white with grids.... and what do you mean by "builder"? There are many home builders that are starting remodeling divisions just to keep their doors open since home construction has died in recent years. I would avoid these guys like the plague. I've worked with, and hired new-construction oriented "carpenters" in the past, and let me tell you that renovation/replacement is an entirely different beast. Stick with a company that specializes in window and door installations.