Need new window buying help

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elentikvah
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Need new window buying help

#1 Post by elentikvah »

Howdy Y'all

Hunny and i moved up from texas to west central wisconsin and purchased a nice 3 year old farm house, the builder of the house used cheap Menards windows that dont have a name anyware on the glass or frame and they all leak air/water like a seive and half of them alre already warped.

So now we are looking to replace our windows but we are basicly in the middle of nowhere (black river falls wisconsin) the nearest town over 20k is an hour away in any direction and any town bigger than 50k is 2.5 hours in any direction so its hard to find reliable contractors where we are. Our local hardware store keeps a list of reputable contractors on hand for locals to use but the only reputable windows person they had retired after 30 years and left a vacume. everywhere i look online and in the phone book advertised windows installers are not actually in buisness anymore so i feel a lil trapped.

Neither of us are a handyperson so my options seem to be continue to play the phone book lotto, or go with sears,Home depot install (both an hour away from me) or a Renewal by Anderson store an hour from me and a 3 season rooms and windows an hour away from me that uses Heartland and Alside windows (wich ive read that i should avoid alside) but has a good customer service reputation, my local ace hardware store sells all models of Simonton windows for our region that the retired local contracter used to install. but nobody else in the region to install them.

Btw im looking am looking for wood cladded windows or composite/fiberglass even open to vinyl if its not as bas as people say some places, double hung windows for 9 32x46" windows all same size and one set of french patio doors 70 x78" that can handle the up to -20 F temps (with wind chill) and the regular 40mph winds on our farm.

In my rural setting should i look for the Simonton,Anderson,Marvin windows that warehouses and lumber stores sell an hour away and play the phone book lotto for any living body to install the high end windows? or should i go with someone like renewal by anderson or the three season room & windows buisness an hour away for a known decent service in our area with a mediocre product? or should i play the Sears & Home Depot installer Roulette?

I dont have a brand loyalty i just want Something that keeps the upper midwest winters on my farm out and my in floor radiant heat in. for my needs im willing to pay for quality just not overpay unless i have no other choice

we would appreciate any suggestions you may have and im willing to answer any questions you have .

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Need new window buying help

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

It is unfortunate you are not closer to Milwaukee. One of the best window pros in the country is located out there and carries some fantastic products.

He contributes regularly to this board and his screen name is HomeSealed.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with vinyl in your application if it fits the aesthetic requirements you are going for. What do you want the window to look like? Start there.

Your window sizes are modest and well within normal range. If you are going insert, you need to make sure your contractor ties back into the envelope properly so as to minimize air infiltration around the frame. Not doing so make a good portion of the window ineffective.

I certainly would not include Renewal if you are making the decision solely based on perceived quality. It is a very average window at best and its performance is more than surpassed and half a dozen windows you will see mentioned on here regularly.

elentikvah
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Need new window buying help

#3 Post by elentikvah »

yes i noticed that but he is over 4 hours drive away from me :( there has been a man of time in the last 3 years i wish we were closer to madison or millwakee. dont get me wrong we love our hobby farm but some times its to rural :)

first after digging around i found 2 windows installers from norandex . now what i dont understand with norandex are they contractors that are employed by norandex or are they just an installer randomly picked like home depot does? thier web page says they do pella and simonton windows as well as peechtree windows and door and viewpoint.

as for the windows they are purly functional we dont want any fancy grills or decorative glass, just letting light in during the day (but not too much sun during the summer) and keep the cold wind out durring the winter. we dont use the windows for anything else other than function, when we want to enjoy our 2 creeks we walk down to them, when we want to look at the view across our farm we use the back patio for that and enjoy all the birds/treeline from our log covered front porch.

There is one feature that has Caught our eye and that was the in between the glass blinds on the pella designer series and we both have at asthma and dust mite allergies wich my wife says would really help that. also our last set of honneycomb blinds were destroyed by her cat and these looks pet proof. The concern i have with pella designer series is the many many poor things ive read about the pella pella pro line and pella encompass, as well as the class acction lawsuits by pelle pro line and now pella architect owners and pellas cavalier attitude twards it all. so despite that the designer series looks interesting to us it scares us particularly at the price that pella commands.

your telling me make sure the contracter ties back into the envelope properly makes me think that it wasnt done correctly the first time aswe get ALOT of airflow all around the frames on every single window.. just put it this way whenever there is a breezed outside the roman shades on every single window staer slapping back and forth on the window hard.

thank you for the heads up on the renewal windows. are the heartlnd windows any good (i know i should avoid the alside thats in my area) the local norandex does simonton prison platinum and gold lines are those any good? ive only heard of the impression line from simonton are the prism platinum or gold as good as the simonton impressions?

btw i know that there are options for window and glass reinforcement for costal areas but would something like that on my back windows where i get 40mph winds off my field help? and also would they help with the ocasional dirtclof or ear of corn that gets thrown when harvesting my field?

and thank you for your help wow

EcoStar Remodeling
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Re: Need new window buying help

#4 Post by EcoStar Remodeling »

Based on what's available to you, I'd give the Simonton Prism Platinum a serious look.

Norandex is a distributor and as far as I know, they don't perform the installation. So it's likely they are just refering you to a contractor who purchases windows from them. Contrary to popular belief, there is nothing wrong with going with their recommendations of an installer. Just exercise the same due diligence you would with any major purchase such as asking for references from previous customers. I would also invite the installers out to take a look at the project and give you their opinion of the best way to install the new windows.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Need new window buying help

#5 Post by HomeSealed »

Good points posted above...
There are some other products (including vinyl) that also offer blinds in the glass besides Pella. I think that the Pella Designer series is a pretty nice window (although big $$$), but I don't think that you'll be happy with it in your application. One thing that is a pretty common issue with that product is air leakage. It just isn't built that tightly. On a farm, I'd imagine that you probably get some pretty nasty winds.
Try contacting Softlite, Sunrise, and Gorell through their website. They'll be able to let you know if they have a dealer that serves your area. You'll get a nice tightly built window, and have the option of blinds in the glass as well.

elentikvah
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Need new window buying help

#6 Post by elentikvah »

HomeSealed wrote:Good points posted above...
There are some other products (including vinyl) that also offer blinds in the glass besides Pella. I think that the Pella Designer series is a pretty nice window (although big $$$), but I don't think that you'll be happy with it in your application. One thing that is a pretty common issue with that product is air leakage. It just isn't built that tightly. On a farm, I'd imagine that you probably get some pretty nasty winds.
Try contacting Softlite, Sunrise, and Gorell through their website. They'll be able to let you know if they have a dealer that serves your area. You'll get a nice tightly built window, and have the option of blinds in the glass as well.
yes we do the 40mph winds arent uncommon and sometime higher gusts. as you can tell in my caste would you recomend me getting the coastal winds reinforcement options on any window brand that i get? also with my kinds of wind on the farm would you recomend vinyl or fiberglass over wood cladded windows? also wich gas would last longer and work the best for my situation the argon or the krypton gas options? and would you recomend double or triple paned?

thank you homeshield and ecostar for your advice

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HomeSealed
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Re: Need new window buying help

#7 Post by HomeSealed »

We don't dip into the coastal hardware very often (for obvious reasons), but to my knowledge it is not any stronger in most cases, it is just different metal used (stainless?) to avoid corrosion from the salty air. One of the guys closer to the water can feel free to correct me if I'm off base on that.
On the product type, certainly there are pros and cons to each. The brands that I recommended to you are all vinyl. My personal recommendation for your situation (and most actually) is vinyl, beceause a premium vinyl product will offer the tightest window, best performance (u-value, etc), best warranty, lowest maintenance, and lowest price. The main reason to go with wood clad or fiberglass is primarily for looks. On the glass, I would get the best that your budget allows. Certainly a double pane with argon will be adequate, yet if anybody might benefit from a triple pane upgrade it would be a situation like yours. Usually triple pane with argon offers a good bang for the buck. Essentially what you should be looking for in glass is as low as possible (numerically) on the U value, and as high as possible on the SHGC. The exact package that I'd recommend would depend again on what your budget allows, and what kind of deal you are getting.

elentikvah
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Need new window buying help

#8 Post by elentikvah »

Thank you HomeSealed that helps me alot then giving me a direction to look.

Without much window knowledge there are thousands of different places on the internet seemingly contradicting each other and is really hard to get any real information that arent glorified sales pitches. you and the other pro's here have really helped me with a direction to look at and features to look for. without all of the advice here id be completly overwhelmed and lost.

With some of the people ive spoken with on the phone and email already the industry really feels like the 80's used car industry, from the various posts ive read here you and the other pro's here have really helped alot of people from not getting fleeced by the used car salesmen.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Need new window buying help

#9 Post by HomeSealed »

I'm glad that we could be of service. :D Best of luck on your project!... Be sure to post with any other questions as they come up.

elentikvah
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Need new window buying help

#10 Post by elentikvah »

Btw HomeSealed why cant you be in Eau claire or La Cross where it would be convenient :(

btw looking at some of the window information from the brands that you recomended (im gonna use sunrise for example) what exactly is the solar clean glass option does it work or is it a gimick?

whats the real world difference between the ultra plus and the ultra plus 12 glass? will the energy savings of the ultra plus 12 actually save me enough on energy to actually pay off that extra expence? i cant tell what a u factor of 2.9 vs the u factor of 2.8 or the SHGC of .21 really means in real world speak. i know that in realife there are always a point of diminishing returns. is there a real difference in effectiveness for the region and weather we have (we get almost everything that the rural areas around minneapolis gets)

also with sunrises in the window blinds does it leak gasses easy like the pella designer line do?

Again thanks for the help!

EcoStar Remodeling
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Re: Need new window buying help

#11 Post by EcoStar Remodeling »

elentikvah wrote:Btw HomeSealed why cant you be in Eau claire or La Cross where it would be convenient :(

btw looking at some of the window information from the brands that you recomended (im gonna use sunrise for example) what exactly is the solar clean glass option does it work or is it a gimick?

No, it really works well. People like it because it eliminates water stains and does stay pretty clean.

whats the real world difference between the ultra plus and the ultra plus 12 glass?

Ultra-U-Plus is 2 LoE coatings with a Visible Transmittence (VT) of 70. Ultra-U-12 is 3 coats of LoE with a VT of 66. The two are used in different applications the U-12 when a very low solar gain is desired and the U-Plus when a slightly higher gain is desired.

will the energy savings of the ultra plus 12 actually save me enough on energy to actually pay off that extra expence? i cant tell what a u factor of 2.9 vs the u factor of 2.8 or the SHGC of .21 really means in real world speak. i know that in realife there are always a point of diminishing returns. is there a real difference in effectiveness for the region and weather we have (we get almost everything that the rural areas around minneapolis gets)

Kind of depends on what you pay for it and what elevations it's used on. A good company can advise you based on geographical and directional evaluations. Whether you have trees on certain sides of the house should be factored in also.

also with sunrises in the window blinds does it leak gasses easy like the pella designer line do?

Sunrise doesn't put gas between the panes on windows with mini-blinds. They also use a hard coat LoE coating as opposed to a soft coat on all other windows. That's because the movement of the mini-blinds can scratch a soft coat LoE.

Again thanks for the help!
You're welcome.

TLHWINDOW
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Re: Need new window buying help

#12 Post by TLHWINDOW »

You shouldn't need coastal hardware (as HS pointed out, it is mainly for corrosion resistance from the salt water), but I woud recommend sash re-enforcement to help bring up the DP rating of the windows.

Softlite, Sunrise and Gorell all have re-enforcement options for their windows.

elentikvah
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Need new window buying help

#13 Post by elentikvah »

Thanks ECO and TLH!

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HomeSealed
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Re: Need new window buying help

#14 Post by HomeSealed »

Eco's points are right on. The only thing that I'd add is that in your situation, you'll want a higher gain window (meaning the SHGC number should be higher). Without regard to the details, an SHGC of .21 is very low (ie: undesirable) for this climate. I like to see it as close to .30 as possible. If you have a window(s) that gets a seriously low amount of sunlight, then go for the lower U-value there at the expense of the SHGC that you want.
On the easy clean glass, I've only had one client ever complain about it. She was VERY adamant about keeping her windows clean, and found that they would not get clean enough for her liking (She spent hours every week cleaning them). We ended up just getting her the a solution to remove the product to fix that for her. For the other 99.9% of people, it is a good product.

elentikvah
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Need new window buying help

#15 Post by elentikvah »

ok after getting emails back from sunrise,softlite gorell and Marvin NONE of them have a dealer/representative in my area.

so it looks like my choices in the region are.
1. Rewnewable by Anderson (wich seems to have an OK reputation in my area)
2. World of Windows 6000 series (the one in eau claire is highly recomended by my wifes co workers bt we were told to avoid the la crosse world of windows ).
3. The Board Store (the quite reputable in the area 3 season room and window store that sells Alside)
4. The Pella store 1 hour away from me thats only open gtom 9 am to 330pm weekdays and no sundays so my wife would have to use up a sick day to deal with them.
5. Over pay Sears to put in simonton with a random installer
6. Have home Depot install Anderson 400 windows with some random unknow installer.
7. Have a contracter recomended by the local Noradex install simonton prism platinum (email from said contracter says he has done windows 3 years wich scares me some)

Since it seems that i cannot get one of the many premium brands to service my house. (wich is not your fault i really appreciate your help and suggestiosn they have educated me alot) wich of the 7 above options are the lesser evil do i over pay for a mediocre product with a place like The Board Store and World of Windows and have the support or should i overpay for a decent simonton/anderson window done by random unknown sears/home depot installer that i cannot interview?

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