Pocket replacement in vinyl window

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mjg32
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:29 pm

Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#1 Post by mjg32 »

I recently came somewhat involuntarily into a rental house. As part of the rental certificate the city had to inspect it and they tell me that I need to replace three windows because they do not pass egress code. They were only replaced 9 years ago by nice double-hung vinyl windows. Is there any reason why I cannot use a new vinyl casement pocket window with egress hardware in the old vinyl frame? I have been looking at the windows and am somewhat flummoxed as to how to remove the sashes and prepare the frame for the pocket replacements. I've done older windows where you pull out the sashes and you get a nice wood frame but if possible I'd like to just do pocket replacements on this task. Thanks kindly.

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toddinmn
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#2 Post by toddinmn »

I am not quite sure what you meant by your first sentence. City codes can often differ from one another for existing windows? Was there a permit pulled on the replacement windows? I would read what the city ordinance or code says myself before replacing.Usually a vinyl casement insert is the easiest way to go.Make sure it meets minimum requirements before ordering.Some of the basic rules for egress windows are:
minimum 20'' clear opening in width and 24'' in height.
The total square footage of the clear opening must also be at least 5.7 square feet unless the sill height is less than 44'' above or below grade , then it only has to be 5 square feet.
Sill height can't exeed 44'' from finished floor.
The window must open directly to the exterior( certain exceptions are allowed)
You do not need egress windows with approved fire sprinklers.
Typical vinyl egress casements need around a 27.5 inch frame opening to meet the 20'' clear opening with egress hardware.
The higher quality vinyl windows are typically easier to install right due to their stronger frames
If the existing vinyl window has a nail flange and is not a pocket window you would want to get a new construction window or you will have to build your own frame.

mjg32
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:29 pm

Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#3 Post by mjg32 »

Thanks for the thoughts. Sorry for the lack of clarity. My wife and I bought the house about 18 months ago for a relative who has since ended up in a nursing home. The windows were replaced in 2003, apparently without a permit, by the previous owner with vinyl double-hung windows. After letting it set empty for 5 months waiting to see if the relative would be healthy enough to live in the house again I finally rented it out. When the inspector came as part of getting the rental certificate he said the new vinyl double-hung windows do not have adequate vertical opening (they are 22 inches and not 24). I tried to get a variance but no dice. Installing sprinklers seems an even more onerous task than replacing the windows. In any case, I found some Jen-Weld casement pocket window replacements with egress hinges that will meet the egress code and can be installed as simple pocket windows.

It seems that what you are saying is that it is not possible to pull out the stops, sashes and other associated hardware from an existing vinyl window and put a pocket replacement into that existing frame. Am I understanding correctly?

Thanks much - Mike

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

No. You will need to pull the existing replacement window. Was the window capped previously?

Post up a picture but a casement should work fine.

mjg32
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#5 Post by mjg32 »

No, the windows have not been capped. Just the new vinyl double-hung windows in 2003.

When you say no, do you mean it is not possible to put a pocket window replacement into these 2003 vinyl window frames? Let me see if I can get some pictures to post.

When I looked up replacements I used the Jeld-Wen calculator at http://www.jeld-wen.com/professional/to ... calculator to ensure that I would meet egress requirements with the egress hinges. Pocket window replacements would be 31.5" wide by 46" high.

I previously put one of these Jeld-Wen pocket replacements in another location that had old 1950s double-hung windows and it was a piece of cake. Took about 15 minutes to pop out the old sashes and hardware. It's these new vinyl frames that are making me wonder if they work completely different and it's just impossible to get out the sashes and hardware to do the pocket replacement. I've asked around various dealers and friends and about all they have said is either I don't know or it depends.

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toddinmn
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#6 Post by toddinmn »

Typically vinly frames aren't suitable to put another window inside of it.So I would never say impossible but probally impractical. I have modified many windows to get the 24'' height opening , would the inspector allow you to do this?

mjg32
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#7 Post by mjg32 »

Hi ToddinMn,

What did you do to modify the windows? What sorts of options are there that might get me by the inspector? I looked around and didn't find much that seemed might work. I talked to a lawyer who said he I could file an official appeal for a variance but that costs $600 and he had never seen anyone win. He thought the whole 24" limit on double hung window windows was dumb as firemen carry axes for a reason. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Whatever I can do to get by would be great.

Mike

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toddinmn
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#8 Post by toddinmn »

Sometimes I have only removed the balance or screw covers for the upper sash to allow it to be raised higher.I have removed the lift rail on the upper sash so the lock on the lower sash would go by it and allow the window to go up higher. I have removed the bottom part of the frame that is higher than the window sill, which gave me more clear opening height. I have put in different balancers and moved them higher on the lower sash since they were preventing the sash from going higher. Sometimes you will have to more than one of these to get your height, it depends on the window. Removing parts of window requires minor surgery, voids warranties and could weaken structure of window. Your best bet is to be nicey with inspector and try to work it out.

mjg32
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#9 Post by mjg32 »

Thanks for the thoughts, Toddinmn. Appreciate the time. It really sucks as I like the double hung much better than casement windows plus mixing all double hung with a casement in each of three bedrooms is whacky from an esthetic point of view. That said, if I have to use a casement with egress hinges to get by I guess that's what I have to do. I don't know if I could get 4.5 inches out even combined workarounds you noted. Maybe 2 inches but I don't think I could get over 4.

Best,

Mike

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toddinmn
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Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#10 Post by toddinmn »

I thought you said your window opened to 22'' and needed to go to 24'' =2''? Some manufactures have an externally and internally applied 11/8 grid that you can have applied to your casement window so it will look like a double hung window. Simonton sells 1'' flat adhesive trim that could be apllied to any window or you could order your window with widest grid possible in between glass.

mjg32
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:29 pm

Re: Pocket replacement in vinyl window

#11 Post by mjg32 »

I must have been out to lunch when I said 22. The inspector, as measured, says it is 19.5 and it needs to be 24. He said if it's maybe an inch or so they normally let is slide. Your other ideas to make them more consistent with the other double hung are great. Thanks.

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