Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

A place to ask all your replacement window questions
Post Reply
Message
Author
ghms9249
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:33 am

Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#1 Post by ghms9249 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:53 am

I have been asked to do an estimate for someone that has vinyl single hung windows with a j channel premoulded. The customer would like new vinyl windows installed, but they would like a rabbeted casing placed around the exterior frame that will function as the j channel. They do not want to disturb the interior trim.

If I go with a replacement window that has no nailing flange then I will be able to insulate and to secure it like any other replacement window except for the fact that this will be done from the outside.

what would someone recommend for keeping out the water? A membrane could be installed from the sheathing onto the sides of the window, but will that be enough?

masterext
Posts: 1079
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:14 am
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#2 Post by masterext » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:22 am

No offense, but for your customers sake as well as yours, if you have to ask questions like this, you really should'nt be installing windows.

ghms9249
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:33 am

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#3 Post by ghms9249 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:56 am

Nice slam. In the business world it is said that one doesn't just criticize, but come up with recommendations...that is what I am looking for, solutions - if you are an expert then give some expert advice.

masterext
Posts: 1079
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:14 am
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#4 Post by masterext » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:30 am

it would be both wrong and unfair for me to give you a tutorial on basic window install 101 when you are purporting yourself as a window pro to an unsuspecting homeowner.
my advice, be honest with the customer and tell them they are much better off contacting a window pro who knows what he is doing.

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4131
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#5 Post by Windows on Washington » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:17 am

Plan on disturbing the exterior trim regardless. I would also plan on pulling the entire frame and trim.

There are some cellular PVC profiles out there that have a trim/J-channel profile built into them but they need to be plastic welded and glued in the corners.

Sounds like a nice job but not one that I would want to cut my teeth on.

Guy
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#6 Post by Guy » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:20 pm

It's simply amazing that every time I come back there's some arrogant Pro (MasterExt) or something bashing another person posting. I feel for you brother (WOW)! Your still here rolling with the flow. If you don't like a post then don't answer! Non of us learned our trade with some Pre set data package in our brain. We were taught by someone or screwed a job up and ate it. When a customer is demanding like that you have to stand up to them and only do what you know best. Tell the customer there will be potential leaking issues possibly. Tell them how you would do it to avoid any leakage. Don't bid a job your uncomfortable about It never ends well!! Good Luck!!!

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 4131
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#7 Post by Windows on Washington » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:59 pm

Hey Guy!!! What's going on in the great cold beyond?

Don't mind MasterExt. He is a good guy (pardon the pun) and helps a bunch of people out.

Delaware Mike
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#8 Post by Delaware Mike » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:41 pm

I would carefully remove the existing siding around those openings and redo the Tvek/house wrap with matching manufacturing tape as needed. Dupont and Typar make good systems. I like to install the same sized unit with a welded integral fin without a built in "J" in your case. I've been utilizing the Imperial LS by Soft-Lite Windows for these types of installs with great success. I've found that since the new construction replacement windows like the Imperial LS has the standard 3.25" thick frame with a different flange offset than that of builder's grade single new construction low-end vinyl, one does have to perform a cut back to either the sheet rock or wood jamb extensions and stool. The cut back is around 5/16" give or take 1/8".

It's nice to have helpers with good shop vacs with new filters to keep the dust done in the house. I keep cordless multi-oscillating tools with good blades for the corner cuts on the stool and generally make the longer rips with a 6 .50" circular saw. With sheet rock new blades in utility knife are a good idea. After flashing the sill with something like Dupont Tyvek Flex Sill we will dry fit the first couple of windows without the sashes in so we can test the fit for shimming and squaring. With the new window frame out I like to inject a nice bead of low-expansion spray foam so I can set the window into a wet bed of foam. After correct flange nailing and jamb anchoring which helps by the way to have the outside guy give proper jamb adjusting tension before he starts going nuts on the flange anchors, you then are pretty much set for proper flange taping. I agin like a product like Dupont Straight Flash.

Now, one can do all kinds of neat stuff with exterior window moldings like the stuff from Royal.
Very time consuming, however Mike Holmes won't be using you as an example a few years from now and when done correctly you have improved upon 99.9% of what short cuts the builders took. No worries other than trying to get a fair labor charge from the homeowners. YouTube flashing videos do a nice job of help selling these jobs if the homeowner wants it not to leak and be right.

Good to see Guy back!

TheWindowNerd
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#9 Post by TheWindowNerd » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:49 am

Cut back siding. remove unit, install new unit with flange, tape and flash, j channel opening, install prewelded surround, caulk, take pictures, collect payment, go to bank, start all over again next day.

theWindowNerd....

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Milwaukee & Madison area

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#10 Post by HomeSealed » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:12 am

Excellent advice Mike, particularly on the wet bed of foam. I don't know too many other guys that use that method.... I was about to start selling it as a HomeSealed "exclusive"! :lol:

Guy
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#11 Post by Guy » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:42 am

It's good to hear from you all! Thanks for taking the time to type all that out Mike. Arthritis in my hands last night was stopping me from typing a bunch. Feel better today. I can tell by the ache that we are in for another cold spell. Rain and snow until Sunday with highs in the 40's. I'm tired of Winter!!! Time to move South! Maybe Randy can put me to work down South!

I use a Lincoln window here in MN. It's a vinyl window with an applied Brickmould (BM). The BM has a small removable cap built into it for fasteners. We cut out the old window and cut back the siding to match the new BM. Then we add matching J channel or custom bend aluminum matching J. If its something odd we use a J that matches the window color. This works out great for a window without any BM. Once you figure the procedure out its much easier to do and you get the best application possible. I have custom jamb boxes made to fit each window. They are stained or painted to match the customers interior. The only way I'll consider leaving inside casing is if its an old house with crazy casing. Then I'll save it and re-apply it to the new jamb box. I'll send a painter back to any job for touch ups. I stand firm with the customer explaining the importance of a proper Installation. I never have to worry about a leak or how I'm going to cover something up. If a customer is really passionate about saving something I'll work it out some way. I believe as we age we find the best way to do our job and stand by it. I leave all the crazy stuff for you young bucks. I'm vested already! The application I use today makes my life much easier. Four skilled installers can install 23 windows and a patio door in about seven hours! That's cleaned up, signed off, and down the road!

Delaware Mike
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#12 Post by Delaware Mike » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:26 am

Cutting back siding to gain access to the nailing flange is the most common and acceptable method as opposed to dropping the siding which requires so much more labor. Down in my area we so many new construction homes built within the last 20 years that have not just vinyl on 3 sides of the house, but also the front. What the builders like to do down here is to bunch the windows together so closely that one can't make the shutters work with any type of cut back and trim board/molding application as the shutters would now overlap each other. Lucky me.

I'm all aboard with Anthony and Guy's technique!

masterext
Posts: 1079
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:14 am
Location: New Jersey Window Pro- Northern NJ and Central NJ

Re: Replacing Vinyl single hung with built in j channel

#13 Post by masterext » Wed May 01, 2013 8:25 am

Didnt intend to come across as being abrasive. When i read your post I had recently returned from an estimate for a very nice elderly couple. They had just replaced their windows about a year ago with another contractor who talked them into using cheap windows. He not only conned them into going with a cheap price but he also did a horrible installation and obviously cut every corner imaginable.
The homeowners now want me to tear out their new windows( 1 year old) and replace them with a better window and a professional installation. Of course I am doing it , but now the home owners are paying more than double for the job. I just really feel bad for them.
The other pro's on the board gave you some great advice.

Post Reply