Pocket or nail fin

[alldun5]

Can I replace the original nail fin windows in my home with a pocket style product?
I currently have Rhino vinyl windows, 36 x 59-1/2 R.O., single hung, no tilt, crap. They came with the house, when it was built in 2002.
I can get the replacements (double hung, tilt, 3x low-e), in either pocket or nail fin. I do not have any experience replacing nail fins, but do in using pockets in older wooden double hung replacement applications. These are from Window World. They made them for my model of house in another subdivision, and the customer backed out before they started. They are all still wrapped in the manufacturers packaging. I can get all 16 windows for $1000. The nail fins snap into the frame if needed.

A co-worker says I can use the pocket by cutting the nail fin to the R.O., placing the pocket, and trimming with a vinyl "L" trim that will be sealed to the J channel and window. Seems like a possible leak.

Another said to use cedar siding to create a tapered sill, use water shield on the bottom and install the same basic way.

I'm inexperienced at removing (damaging) the siding for the fins, but if it's the best way, I'll damned well learn.

Thank you.

[uncle eddie]

Bad idea on multiple accounts. Number one, you are replacing a bad window with another window that is marginally better at best depending on model, but my guess is that its the 4000/Excalibur. Two, you want to avoid a fin-less window in an RO if possible. It CAN be done, but it is not an install for someone inexperienced, nor is it ever preferred, with the possible exception of in a masonry opening. Keep the fin.
I realize 16 window for $1k is a tremendous deal, but that is a lot of time and effort to put in a questionable product/installation.

[alldun5]

Which brands would you consider to be worthy?

[Windows on Washington]

Are you going to be doing this yourself?

Where is the home located?

Exterior is vinyl siding I take it?

[alldun5]

Northern Illinois, Rockford area.
-6F now without wind chill.
Yes vinyl siding.
I've decided to do these 4 at a time. 4 under the covered porch, 4 over the porch.....etc...
I figure I'll put recessed lighting in the porch soffit (I am licensed) and wrap what I can get to while doing the windows. Fix a few things all at once.

[Windows on Washington]

How is the flashing behind the siding right now?

If there is no flashing, the window should be removed down to the flange and rebuilt that way. If the flange is flashed and there is housewrap, you can still do an insert/pocket style and seal it up correctly with proper materials and technique.

You have access to some better brands in IL and I would suggest that you really up the ante on materials or you will be miserable over the long term.

Example: A window that leaks a bunch of air is going to be uncomfortable over the life of the window so look for good thermals and tight air numbers.

[alldun5]

The windows are flashed, but there is no wrap.

I am going to wrap the areas as I go. Luckily they are sectioned.

What brands do you consider to be good?

A1 or B1 method?

[Windows on Washington]

Wrap as in housewrap or wrap is in trim coil (exterior trim).

If you are going to be putting back in housewrap, the flange will have to be exposed that that point and you should go ahead with the full tear out, new construction application without question.

[alldun5]

No housewrap currently. Since I have to remove the siding to do the windows, I figured I'd add the wrap at that time.

Yes full tear out and install new. That's where the A1 or B1 question arose from.

BUT which window brands should I look at?

[HomeSealed]

No housewrap currently. Since I have to remove the siding to do the windows, I figured I'd add the wrap at that time.

Yes full tear out and install new. That's where the A1 or B1 question arose from.

BUT which window brands should I look at?

Good strategy. Housewrap is very important IMO to get everything properly lapped and sealed for the long term. If you research this site and others, the unanimous brands generally considered to be great would include Sunrise, Okna, Himark, Softlite, and some others... The big thing as WoW alluded to is to see good performance ratings. There are double hung windows that get as low as .25 u-factors with standard double pane glass, and air infiltration ratings as low as .01cfm ... To put that in perspective, an average window will be around .30 u-factor and .15-.20 AI.

[alldun5]

Uncle Eddie they were the 4000 series.


On the hunt for better.

[uncle eddie]

Definitely move on. Those ratings are atrocious. The .19 shgc is far too low for your climate even if the u value was much better than that--which it is not. High u factor and low (numerically) shgc is a great sign of a garbage product. I believe that the air leakage is something like .15-.20 as well which is poor compared to other products.

[alldun5]

Thanks for taking the time. I've discovered the construction methods of WW/alside, leave a lot to be desired as well.
I try to be an informed consumer, and do it myself as much as possible.
I truly appreciate your time and information.

[Windows on Washington]

+1 to the previous feedback.

Expand your search a bit. You are doing everything else right so don't wind up with the wrong window in there.

[alldun5]

What would be good numbers for my climate?