Champion windows quote

[Misio]

Hello,I’m in Chicago area and I received a quote for 2x double hung half-screen 32×44 and one picture window 60×44 Champion 8200 including installation and free glass cleaner for $2,380. Since my project is small do you think I can negotiate lower price ?

Thank you.

[Windows on Washington]

Price is okay, window is below average in my opinion. Any better options out there for you?

[Misio]

Price is okay, window is below average in my opinion. Any better options out there for you?

Second quote S1,650 for Simonton Reflection 5500 triple pane additional $600-worth it? We also try Andersen but they are very expensive over $4,000

[Windows on Washington]

The Simonton is the better window of that comparison.

Have you looked for a Soft-Lite, Sunrise, Okna, Home Guard, etc. dealer?

[Misio]

The Simonton is the better window of that comparison.

Have you looked for a Soft-Lite, Sunrise, Okna, Home Guard, etc. dealer?

Thank you for recommended Sunrise, Okna, Home Guard will check if available in my area. I’m not an expert but comparing NFRC stickers looks like Champion are better than Simonton?
We currently have around 14 years old Soft-Lite windows but we’re not happy with them. Constant force balances replaced 3 times in two windows during first 5 years at our cost since Soft-Lite does not cover labor/shipping to fix a warranty problem also we had some big winter storm last year and picture glass crack; again Soft-Lite does not cover glass breakage. Any experience with “lifetime” Champion warranty service?

[Windows on Washington]

I am less of a fan of the Champion window based on its design.

That is odd about the balances on the Soft-Lites but not about their warranty coverage.

The Sunrise, like the Okna, uses a different balance system.

[masterext]

The fact that your " constant force" balance system by soft lite failed not once but twice, should immediately put the "constant force is the best" argument to rest. Its a very good balance but in no way has an edge over the newer/ advanced block and tackle system. The only edge a constant force has is from a manufacturing perspective, it requires less shelf space.
The only negative i heard regarding champion is their utilization of a pocket sill designed which we all dislike. Although simonton is not actually a pocket, it does use weep holes and is very bulky with much less than stellar performance numbers.
I think windows on washington offered some sound advice.

[Misio]

The fact that your " constant force" balance system by soft lite failed not once but twice, should immediately put the "constant force is the best" argument to rest. Its a very good balance but in no way has an edge over the newer/ advanced block and tackle system. The only edge a constant force has is from a manufacturing perspective, it requires less shelf space.
The only negative i heard regarding champion is their utilization of a pocket sill designed which we all dislike. Although simonton is not actually a pocket, it does use weep holes and is very bulky with much less than stellar performance numbers.
I think windows on washington offered some sound advice.

What's wrong with pocket sill design-dirt collector? Slope sill is better?

[HomeSealed]

Few things:
1) Yes a sloped sill is superior when available. Channeling water, dirt, debris, etc through the frame of a window and out tiny weep holes is not desirable, particularly when there are products that perform as good or better without them.

2) Regarding NFRC ratings, that depends where you live. If you are in a colder climate, yes the Champion window may get the better u factor. That said, they do it by adding more coats of low e, which also decrease the SHGC and can actually make the window less efficient in many cases, and makes it darker (less light) as well. IMO, it is a trick to make the window look more efficient (with the lower ufactor) to homeowners. If an apples to apples comparison to like glass packages was done you might see a different "winner".

3) Ask for the structural data test report of their double hung window which will show you the air infiltration rating as well as the Design Pressure (structural integrity). To my knowledge it does not fare well in comparison to other top windows. This is particularly important as most homeowners are looking for windows that will be less drafty.

[toddinmn]

One post would not lay any argument to rest. I have put in many Soft-Lite as well many other brands that use constant force, and I can't even remember the last time I replaced one. To have 3 go out on 2 windows within 5 years would be considered a freak occurrence. Glass failures after 5 years is not the norm either. The balances would have been covered by a most installers warranty, and maybe the installation of the glass. To have the customer deal with the manufacture is not proper either, this should have handled by the dealer/installer.Glass breakage warranties can be purchased at point of sale and labor would be something your dealer/installer should include in there warranty. If I was purchasing a window one of the last things I would consider is the balance since either type rarely break. I would chalk this up to bad luck and poor service/warranty from the installer/dealer.

[Windows on Washington]

I won't speak for masterext but I don't think he was indicating that this makes the argument that the constant force is somehow superior invalid.

I have said it before and it is worth restating, I wouldn't buy one window over another because of a CF or Block and tackle balance. Both are good.

[masterext]

Im not saying the advanced block and tackle is better than a constant force, i am just saying the constant force isnt superior and a constant force can at times fail, although relatively rare.
To me, its six in one, half dozen in the other. Both are solid and equal in my view. That said, i prefer a 3/4 constant force over a 1/2" constant force.

[Misio]

Not sure if this is related to balances damage, but windows were hard to open compering to other, so maybe installations was done incorrectly.We bought the house and windows ware installed already so we do not know who instaled it. According to installer who replaced broken balances installation was close-fitting, and he put some wax to operate it easier which helps for moment.
I asked Champion sales person for structural data test report but did not recive it, because according to him those are not important technical numbers for regular customer.He claimed that HFRC rating for Chicago area and double hung Champion8200 window is exellent.

[Windows on Washington]

Not sure if this is related to balances damage, but windows were hard to open compering to other, so maybe installations was done incorrectly.We bought the house and windows ware installed already so we do not know who instaled it. According to installer who replaced broken balances installation was close-fitting, and he put some wax to operate it easier which helps for moment.
I asked Champion sales person for structural data test report but did not recive it, because according to him those are not important technical numbers for regular customer.He claimed that HFRC rating for Chicago area and double hung Champion8200 window is exellent.

Could have been installed too tightly or otherwise damaged.

As far as the salesperson's idea of what is important...I will let you figure out what level of horse-hockey that rises too.

[Misio]

Thank you all for sugeions-waiting for Starmark quote.I noticed that Himark windows are aso made by OKNA.Any opinions on those?