Unbiased opinion

[Sth3747]

Hello all. I'm Todd from Virginia. I am hoping to get an unbiased opinion on my recent experience with a local window contractor. okay here goes. Hired a local contractor to replace 16 windows and wrap with aluminum trim coil. no big deal right? Got several estimates and chose this one based on reputation and the way he was going to wrap the windows. My home has lap cedar siding, so he suggested cutting a groove around the brickmold for the trim coil to slide into. My problem arose when the installer refused to cut around the brickmold and instead notched the trim coil to fit the lap siding.The first one he did looked decent before being caulked and I reluctantly approved. The next 11 were not so good. A few were awful. Weep holes covered on 3.Caulking was the sloppiest I've ever seen. So bad that I didn't let him do the last 4 on my covered porch. Trimmed those in wood myself and re-caulked the others myself. Contractor agreed to come back and re-wrap the 2 worst and notch around a weep hole on another and he expects full payment minus $100 for the 4 he didn't wrap. Should I pay him the full amount or should he knock off more for not wrapping the way the contract states?

[masterext]

To be honest, when we cap exterior window trim, we dont caulk where the siding meets the new aluminum trim and i dont know anyone near me that would. The trim cannot be flush with the wood because its lapped, it just wont work.
Personally, you should pay the guy. Unless i am misunderstanding you, your expectations may be a bit far fetched and over the top. Of course he should seal where the window meets the aluminum trim.

[Sth3747]

If I understand you correctly, on your wrap jobs you leave a small strip of exposed wood on the outside trim? This installer made angled cuts in the aluminum trim coil on the outsides of the brickmold in an attempt to make the trim coil contact the siding. His notched cuts were way off leaving big gaps in spots, small gaps in others. Other places he forced the aluminum to contact the siding and nailed it in placed which seemed to cause some wrinkles in the aluminum. The caulking was intended to fill the gaps between the trim coil and the siding. The contractor had told me when he gave me the proposal that the installer would use a sawzall or skillsaw to create an 1/8" or so gap between the siding and the brickmold so that the trim coil could butt against the wall sheathing behind the siding leaving no exposed wood trim. Wish I could post pics. Maybe it wasn't feasible to do it that way. Maybe he thought it would give him a better chance of getting the job. But it was his suggestion, he seemed like he had done it before, and he put in the contract. One other tidbit, the installer he sent was a sub. He said "his" installer was on medical leave. Found this out after I complained. Once again this was all his suggestion not mine. I wasn't sure how to go about it. I asked a different contractor about replacing
the trim with PVC because the thought of some body running a skill saw around my window made me nervous. Had planned on staining the house year so I wasn't too worried about scuffing the siding but was scared he may cut too deep or cause splitting. He said the pvc brickmold would be hard to do with a replacement window and was confident his way would turn out good. So that was 2 contractors who agreed on the same way. The other contractors I got estimates from were kind of vague on how they would do the wrap. Their proposals state: "Install and wrap windows." I guess I just like to know details. And thanks for your feedback.

[toddinmn]

I would have cut the siding, to cut the coil to fit the lap siding would be difficult and time consuming and typically would yield results similar to yours which would then require large messy joints prone to failure. I Prefer to use a caulk that matches the siding at this joint as it looks cleaner. I would knock off more, only a $100 off for not doing 4 windows? Notching around a weep hole does not sound good either. I wouldn't pay anything until this is properly rectified. Let's see some pictures. Sound like they may be creating more problems then they are solving. I don't think Mike would approve.

[Windows on Washington]

Can you post up some pictures?

[masterext]

Can you post up some pictures?

Agree, send us a pic or two. He may be cutting the wood siding in order to create a notch for the aluminum to snap into? With lapped wood siding the aluminum wont ever be totally flush. Filling that area with caulk would look kind of sloppy. Most guys dont do that. Again, unless i am missing something here and he specifically stating that in a contract. "Wrapping the windows" normally doesnt encompass notching wood siding.

[Sth3747]

There is a small section at the bottom of this page that gives the can dos and can't dos of this forum and it seems posting attachments is not allowed. Please correct me if i'm wrong or tell me another way and please please excuse my ignorance. I'm new to forums and really wish I had joined prior to my window job to get some good insight. We all know the saying about hindsight.

[HomeSealed]

If I understand you correctly, on your wrap jobs you leave a small strip of exposed wood on the outside trim? This installer made angled cuts in the aluminum trim coil on the outsides of the brickmold in an attempt to make the trim coil contact the siding. His notched cuts were way off leaving big gaps in spots, small gaps in others. Other places he forced the aluminum to contact the siding and nailed it in placed which seemed to cause some wrinkles in the aluminum. The caulking was intended to fill the gaps between the trim coil and the siding. The contractor had told me when he gave me the proposal that the installer would use a sawzall or skillsaw to create an 1/8" or so gap between the siding and the brickmold so that the trim coil could butt against the wall sheathing behind the siding leaving no exposed wood trim. Wish I could post pics. Maybe it wasn't feasible to do it that way. Maybe he thought it would give him a better chance of getting the job. But it was his suggestion, he seemed like he had done it before, and he put in the contract. One other tidbit, the installer he sent was a sub. He said "his" installer was on medical leave. Found this out after I complained. Once again this was all his suggestion not mine. I wasn't sure how to go about it. I asked a different contractor about replacing
the trim with PVC because the thought of some body running a skill saw around my window made me nervous. Had planned on staining the house year so I wasn't too worried about scuffing the siding but was scared he may cut too deep or cause splitting. He said the pvc brickmold would be hard to do with a replacement window and was confident his way would turn out good. So that was 2 contractors who agreed on the same way. The other contractors I got estimates from were kind of vague on how they would do the wrap. Their proposals state: "Install and wrap windows." I guess I just like to know details. And thanks for your feedback.

Neither method is wrong. I prefer to cut a kerf for the trim to tuck into, but notching the trim is fine. It sounds like te problem here is in the execution and communication. Your trim should look tight and clean, and have a clean bead of caulk in the appropriate locations. You could demand that the trim be tucked into grooves and all redone, but I'd suggest that the main concern here is aesthetic, so if there are any (or maybe all) that do not have a professional appearance, if focus on getting those addressed. I'll also add that as you alluded to earlier, despite the fact that the kerf and tuck was discussed and preferred, there may have been a valid reason that the installer did not do it that way.
Please do post some pics and we can give some additional feedback.

[Sth3747]

Installers reason for not cutting the kerf and tucking the trim was that it was more work and would be more mess to clean up. It is "my opinion" that him being a sub contractor, he was paid a fixed amount per window and was trying to get it done faster. I'm still trying to figure out why I cant post pics. Is there another category where it is allowed? Anyone want me to pm some pics to them? Again, excuse my lack of knowledge of forums. And thank you all, I really want to get this resolved. Need to move on to other projects. Your comments are much appreciated.

[HomeSealed]

Installers reason for not cutting the kerf and tucking the trim was that it was more work and would be more mess to clean up. It is "my opinion" that him being a sub contractor, he was paid a fixed amount per window and was trying to get it done faster. I'm still trying to figure out why I cant post pics. Is there another category where it is allowed? Anyone want me to pm some pics to them? Again, excuse my lack of knowledge of forums. And thank you all, I really want to get this resolved. Need to move on to other projects. Your comments are much appreciated.

Its actually faster to just cut the kerf in my experience... But then again, if he did a terrible job on the cuts, he probably could do it pretty quick.
For pics, you have to host them on a site like photobucket and post the link. The PM feature is disabled on the site last time I checked.

[Sth3747]

http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/thumb ... =snapfish/

Here's a link to a few pics. The last one (125) is after I re-caulked. You can see the wrinkles where it was forced in.

[toddinmn]

They should have kerfed it, The casing should have been built out a little to give more reveal , dents and wrinkles are not acceptable, the caulking is sloppy and short, The sill should be flush with the casing or slightly wider, The tabs on the sill horns are cut off , I prefer not not caulk where casing meets sill but you need tight joint for this, wonder what they did on the top of the casing where it is most prone to leaking?Hard to tell what is going on with the sill and weep holes but does not look the good. The sill detail is just as important as the head since when the head leaks the sill takes on the most water and most prone to rot. A pic of the sill before they caulked would be most revealing. I have seen jobs that have looked pretty good after they were caulked, but were done in way that would not shed water and would actually would hold it in. I don't think Mike would approve of this job and would order it to be removed and be redone.

[Delaware Mike]

That is completely unacceptable. I would have also kerfed the siding and slid the metal as deep as possible. No experienced window installed would make such rookie mistakes. Todd pretty much pointed out everything that was done incorrectly. I'm not a fan of smooth/enamel aluminum over wood siding. This is exactly the ammo that the high-end wood clad guys make fun of and pick apart regarding the vinyl retrofit guys. Sorry.

[Sth3747]

I'm not a fan of it either. the smooth aluminum and cedar siding just don't go together. The old windows were wooden MW windows. Looked good on the inside but they were barely functional. Sills were getting in bad shape. I've heard bad things about MW windows so I felt like I needed to do something. Should have researched a little more. I've seen this contractor do great work in the past. My co workers have used him quite a bit on their rental houses. Most of his work comes from nice neighborhoods on busy streets with lots of advertising potential. I live in old house in the country that's not very visible from the road. He supposed to be coming out with a different installer next Tuesday but it doesn't sound like he's willing to do much. If anyone has anymore suggestions or comments, please speak up. Does anyone use pvc brickmold? I'm thinking of having him pull the wrap off and trim them like I did the 4 on my porch. I'll post a pic of those tomorrow to see what yawl think.

[Sth3747]

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7 ... 5346nu0mrj

pic of one of the four I did.