Replacing pre existing vinyl windows....install questions

[swwchi]

This forum has been a great resource, hoping to get some input from the pros regarding my situation and if I should replace existing vinyl replacement windows.

House is in the Denver, Colorado area. Built in 2002 with pretty bad vinyl windows that are failing. Looking to replace with either vinyl (Soft-lite and Vanguard have both been quoted) or Alpen fiberglass 525.

All of these windows seem to be highly regarded and I am trying to base my decision more on the installation. This is where things get difficult. My windows have either complete stucco surrounding them or a combination of stucco and fiber-cement siding or complete siding. On the inside, the casing is maple trim. I have attached photos for reference.







Each of my 3 bids have suggested different installations. Trying to pin down all the details has been a little difficult but here is what I gathered...

1. Keep the inside trim and the outside stucco intact. Cut out the old window and "screw and glue" the new window. This is a larger company that gets good reviews. The cheapest installation cost

2. Take off the inside trim and do a "full frame installation" including flashing, spray foam. The exterior stucco would be undisturbed with this technique. He mentioned that sometimes the inside casing can be taken off intact, other times new inside casing will need to be installed. This is a one man operation that is very well regarded. Been in the community for 20 years. Have more confidence with this approach. Quite a bit more expensive for installation.

3. Wait to replace the stucco and exterior paint (which is likely 3-5 years away) and do more of a new construction replacement at that time by cutting the stucco. The most expensive installation option.

Would prefer not to add any trim on the outside in order to keep the home looking the same as before. Many of the full frame installation seem to take this approach however. Willing to pay the extra expense for the right installation.

Questions:

1. I am leaning toward #2 but wanted to make sure that a "full frame replacement" can be accomplished by just removing the inside trim. Looking over different manufacturers installation instructions has been a little daunting for someone not in the trade.
2. Would option #2 provide better waterproofing and airtight installation over #1
3. Would option #3 provide any significant benefit in regards to waterproofing and airtight installation over #2
4. Any other installation suggestions based on the attached photos?
5. Any additional questions to ask the installer?

Thank you for your time

[masterext]

Classic sheetrock return install. You can do option 1 with no issues and save quite a bit of money.
If you have ubiquitous water damage and issues with the outside trim then option 2 is best.
I have no comment on option 3, it really isnt relevent.

[Windows on Washington]

There is no benefit to Option 2 over Option 1 when it comes to leak prevention.

Option 3 is the best option, but considerably more expensive.

I agree that a drywall return install is fine here.

[Delaware Mike]

If you decide to go with option #1 you are going to want to ask more detailed questions regarding the sizing of the windows and trim. I gathered that you wanted the same sized window to go back into the hole as to not change and significant appearance to the exterior of the house. If a downsized window is their plan, transitional exterior capping and interior trim stops might be involved in their install.

[swwchi]

Thanks for all the responses.

With option #1 he indicated that we would actually gain a little glass space because of the lower profile of the replacement window. He did not indicate that there would be any exterior trim. Can option #1 be done without changing the exterior? He was a salesman and not an installer. Really don't want any exterior trim if possible

[Randy]

Option 1 is the most common in my area, and can be done in a leak-proof manner by experienced installers.

[Guy]

You do have the traditional drywall return on some windows. The others that have the stained wood look like preassembled Jamb Boxes. Easy to remove by taking a nail set and punching the nails in. You can usually see the puttied holes in the casing. A thin 3/32" or 1/8" roll pin punch can drive the nails straight in to the wall. Once loosened the entire Jamb Box will pull right out. The Glue & Screw method works great if done by skilled installers. Not recommended for the new guy or someone who's never done it. The issue most installers forget is the jamb thickness of the new window verses the old. New units come in many jamb thicknesses. The standard insert usually comes in around 2-1/2" - 3-1/4". This can be a huge hassle if the old window is thicker than the new one. Replacing the drywall is easy. You just cut the rock to fit the opening. The jamb boxes could require new stained wood cut to the new jamb extension size. Its not a huge issue, its just a pain in the rear if not prepared. Just make sure they bend new drip caps and slide them in place before the window is installed. Proper caulking and foaming are the key to this method. if done properly it will serve you well for many years. After the windows are installed and set i strongly recommend the garden hose test. Spray water over the top of each window and down the sides. Don't blast it in the joints or gaps. Just simulate rainfall for a couple minutes. Then have someone inside looking for leakage. Good installers will usually do this on their own. You can also do a blower door test. Test in and then out. Any leakage will be seen right away. Good Luck!!!

[toddinmn]

I do not think it is common for installers to spray their windows with water.
I have not seen good or bad installers do this.

[masterext]

Agree. It is far from normal to ever see even the best installers spray water on a new window to see if its sealed. I have never heard nor have i ever seen anyone do that. That could present a liability issue that has nothing to do with the window.

[Guy]

Ive done it numerous times. In most cases i was trying to find a leak. But I've also done it to prove the window is installed properly. Its always done me well. I've always been very confident in my installations. Sometimes its the only way to find the problem. Its common in my circle. Sorry guys!!

[toddinmn]

Doing so trying to find a leak is little different, the way it was stated made it sound like the norm after every normal install. You then stated in most cases it was for finding a leak which makes it sound like it is not typically done. Most leaks I deal with can be found without spraying water. Would love to see the owners face when doing this in a MN winter.

[Windows on Washington]

I water testing this skylight. Poor choice of time of year.

In all seriousness though, Guy is probably referring to specific incidences of leaks and is a real stickler for water and flashing details.

[Brewster]

That looks like my car...lol