Aaarr the ole' chestnut....triple v double v laminate v etc

Ask replacement window questions & get answers!
Post Reply
Message
Author
garjobo
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:31 pm

Aaarr the ole' chestnut....triple v double v laminate v etc

#1 Post by garjobo »

Hello,

Keeping my question straightforward in the hope some kind soul with knowledge will answer it.

Wanting to purchase replacement windows, current frames old 18mm at best. Although heat loss etc important for me personally it's the soundproofing abilities a new unit can offer. Neighbours - don't you just love em'!!! so it would be great to just tone down the odd noise of dog, garage, wheeliebin type noises late at night.

I'm realistic, I know, budget wont allow some special kind of setup BUT, had 4 quotes so far and each with varying ideas on what to get.

So...

Appears the 28mm unit, laminated outer pane 6.4mm with 2nd frame laminated 4mm ( thereabouts..so many figures in my head at moment!! ) is actually BETTER than a triple glazed unit????

I was hoping for a simple answer ie, triple glazed 28mm, outer pane laminated thicker than other two panes. Will be better for sound reduction.

Then there is 44mm unit been offered, not a lot in it money wise to be honest so it's tempting...44mm triple glazed, laminate 1 pane at least. BUT...apparently the 44mm is actually a 28mm unit adjusted to take 44mm.... - Changing the 'slipping' on 62/723 mm outer frames and adapted ( so another company tells me...but sales people did tell me 'made in germany' so must be good etc etc )

To be fair the chap telling me the 44mm did say unlikely to really hear a difference from 28mm double glazed unit etc but style is different something to do with..perhaps that 'slipping' not angled but at 90 degrees...

I don't know..but tearing hair out. Just want the best option to reduce sound. Cant go for secondary glazing etc

Anyone have a solution. btw, appears this forum mentions units ive never heard of..im from northern Ireland ( lucky me! ) so if you are kind enough to reply obviously I'm unlikely to get certain types of units / even Pilkenton glass is hard to get overhere..so really a case of just knowing what one to go for 28mm double lam v 28mm triple lam (one pane ) I suppose it really boils down too.

Appreciate a reply

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 5311
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Aaarr the ole' chestnut....triple v double v laminate v etc

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

This is definitely a question for Oberon.

He is a glazing guru and I will email him this link.

Stay tuned.

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2996
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin

Re: Aaarr the ole' chestnut....triple v double v laminate v etc

#3 Post by HomeSealed »

Image
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

... seriously though, I'll also defer to Oberon on the very specific comparison of specialty glass.

garjobo
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Aaarr the ole' chestnut....triple v double v laminate v etc

#4 Post by garjobo »

This guru you mentioned Windows on Washington - intriguing. I await with baited breath for his/her and anyone elses brains on this matter.

Just bare in mind live in UK - looking at this forum does appear more US based..but could be mistaken. So it's all Ergon gas in frames A-Rated...so perhaps may not be able to properly advise..but I hope so.

28MM DOUBLE GLAZED, LAMINATE UNIT ( hopefully properly sealed etc etc the usual ) 6.4mm glass and 4.2 ( I think ). V 44mm unit triple, with outer pane laminate ( they come in at roughly same price to be honest...so why doesn't more go for the 44mm I ask myself??? apparently you cannot get both sound proofing and heat retention its one of the other ( sales chap said..but he spoke to the glazer in front of me so heard it for myself )

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2996
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin

Re: Aaarr the ole' chestnut....triple v double v laminate v etc

#5 Post by HomeSealed »

garjobo, not sure how products are rated across the pond, however here we have STC and OITC ratings that will give you a reference point for sound transmission performance, and those can of course be weighed with against the thermal and structural ratings of the product to determine what might be a better fit for your needs/wants. As WoW alluded to, Oberon would be the guy to give you a technical assessment of exactly how that all works in coming from the fenestration side of the industry, whereas most of us are on the installed sales side. That said, maybe simply identifying and assessing those performance ratings is all you are needing?

Oberon
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:25 am
Location: East of the Mississippi

Re: Aaarr the ole' chestnut....triple v double v laminate v etc

#6 Post by Oberon »

As usual I am late to the party, I hope not too late.

garjobo, the 6.4mm laminate is likely to be 3.0 glass/.38pvb interlayer/3.0mm glass. I would personally prefer .76 pvb for sound applications, but .38 is more the standard in Euro while .76 is usually the minimum thickness in North America.

Despite very common claims, a triple pane IGU may not out perform a dual pane in sound performance, or it might, depending on a couple of additional factors.

If the total airspace width between glass lites of the triple pane and dual pane are the same (i.e. if both airspaces in the triple are 6.0 (total of 12mm) while the dual has a 12mm airspace), then sound performance between the triple and dual is going to be pretty much the same between them (also assuming consistent glass thickness for both). Its the total airspace that matters, not the number of glass lites in the IGU.

Per your examples, I do like the 28mm option, but I would still ask about the possibility of .76mm interlayer versus .38 - unless the .38 is using a sound control pvb. The two most common pvb's used in Europe are trosifol and saflex, and while both of them have a sound control version, I don't recall either of them having a .38mm sound control version (maybe trosifol does??). Sekisui out of Japan does have a .38mm sound control but I am not sure if its even available in Europe...but I digress (normal for me).

The .28mm option with laminated glass and a .19mm airspace will give you decent sound control. In most instances, unless your neighbors are exceptionally loud, probably more than sufficient.

However I really like the 44mm option. As you describe it I am thinkin it is a 28mm with an extra lite attached adding more enclosed airspace. Again airspace is the maney-maker. Its the airspace that you want. If the additional lite is 5mm or 6mm, then more the better. This option will reward you and you should have a very nice jump in performance versus the 28 alone - which isn't a bad option either.

If it was me, and I could afford it, I would go with the 44mm.

Post Reply