Replacing windows- Kansas- any suggestions?

[HomeSealed]

That is pretty consistent in the industry. Some dealers will pick up that cost for you, but very few manufacturers cover any type of install labor for warranty parts

[billb1981]

I was able to get the Sunrise dealer down to $9700, or $9300 cash. Waiting for one more quote for Soft-lite, but here's where I'm at:

Window Universe Express, Dan's company- $6400 for the Revere Berkshire Elites, or $9700 for Sunrise. I know it's a personal choice etc, but we've currently got old wood windows that were builder grade installed in 1997, do you guys think it's worth the extra $3300?

-Thanks

[TheWindowNerd]

Yes it is worth the extra money to have windows that do not leak like a sieve.

[Windows on Washington]

Air numbers on the newer Alside products are respectable. I recall when they came out that I was floored by their improvement.

Depending how long you are going to be in the home and which product you preferred is the real Calculus to figure out where you want to land.

[billb1981]

And this is why I am enjoying the answers here.....novel coming up:

Worth the extra money to have windows that do not leak like a sieve....with that statement are you saying that I should stay clear of the Revere's as well?

And WOW....I will do some more research on the air numbers....but if your opinion, what is the biggest rating I should pay attention to when I'm looking at the NFRC rating?

Reason I ask....our windows now seem to be doing ok, but I know they aren't that efficient, don't open easily, etc but neighbors ask, "do you really need new windows?" I'm not worried about resale value, I'm more worried about day in and day out, if I spend $6,000 now am I really "wasting' money when I could save another $3,000 in a year and go with the top of the line windows for 9,000 ish?

You guys are obviously very experienced in this, so appreciate all the feedback, but if I get down to it, I want new windows for the look and the overall ease of use of them, and hope to save some money on my heating/cooling.....Let's say my current windows are costing me $200 a year in heat loss (I have no idea just throwing out a number) will the best windows only cost me $100 in heat loss and the "ok" windows cost me $150?

We live in an average size, traditional two story home in the Midwest. If my home was a $500,000 house I could see going the top of the line, but we don't. I also don't want the basic entry level builder grade stuff that's in here now, or the Window world basic.

I work in IT....so I have people that want newer, faster computers....but their job doesn't require the work that will benefit them from the newer faster top of the line computer. That's how I'm trying to relate to it, because most standard homeowners just see the window installed and don't really know what goes into what is behind their trim, so is it really worth spending an extra $3500?

I would assume that anything I get is going to be better than what we have, but just trying to pick your brains if I need the Lexus vs. the Toyota, if the end result still gets me to work and is better than the stripped down geo metro?

Hopefully this makes sense, not wanting you guys to make the decision for me, but maybe this gives you an idea of my thinking, and helpful for others who use this site for your input, (which again thank you) my wife probably thinks I'm nuts

[TheWindowNerd]

I agree with Windows On Washington that the Alside has some models with good AL numbers. I installed two projects with them, Mezzo, because a customer was sold on them based on what another dealer told them. The windows were okay, thin vinyl and a lot of slop in the tolerances. So I do not recommend them.
Just not what I would put in my house, a family member or good friend.
I hear ya on not wanting to overspend.
Not sure of your total list but here is mine:
Sunrise Restoration or Vanguard
Soft-lite Elements or Imperial LS
Okna 800DX, 600DX, or 500DX
I used to offer the Simonton5500 as my preferred unit but it leaks a lot of air, howls in a wind storm.
That is why I am so fussy about AL.

theWindowNerd.

[toddinmn]

I agree with Windows On Washington that the Alside has some models with good AL numbers. I installed two projects with them, Mezzo, because a customer was sold on them based on what another dealer told them. The windows were okay, thin vinyl and a lot of slop in the tolerances. So I do not recommend them.
Just not what I would put in my house, a family member or good friend.
I hear ya on not wanting to overspend.
Not sure of your total list but here is mine:
Sunrise Restoration or Vanguard
Soft-lite Elements or Imperial LS
Okna 800DX, 600DX, or 500DX
I used to offer the Simonton5500 as my preferred unit but it leak
s a lot of air, howls in a wind storm.
That is why I am so fussy about AL.

theWindowNerd.

To quote the Window Dog himself, " Alside has had a reputation for questionable quality control at times"
Anyone got the air numbers on this window? DP? U value?

[WindowsDirectCinci]

Revere, Mezzo, WW is all the same product. Just different names and brochures. I don't like those products for a few reasons. Only two layers of weatherstripping (better products usually have at least 3). the vinyl extrusion thickness is .060 mil (one of the thinnest vinyls in the industry), relies on stick on fuzzy pads in the corners to lower the AI rating at testing. After a few years these fall off and what will be the AI rating then? I have a WW sales sample in my office and it has sat in a climate controlled area for about 3 years (in the warehouse). One of the fuzzy pads have fell off and the sash is sagging, keep in mind this is a 20'' wide window. This is due from the super thin vinyl and lack of any substantial reinforcements. The Mezzo could have an AI rating of .01 and I still wouldn't recommend because guess what at year 2-3 when the vinyl sags/droops/weatherstrip flattens and the corner pads are laying in the garden that AI isn't going to mean anything. A well designed product will be more likely to hold its AI rating for the life of the product. There are better products out there that are in this price range thats why I don't recommend. Also I have sold over 5,000 Mezzo's so I'm familiar with all the aspects of that product .... I certainly would understand if someone didn't want to spend an extra 3k but you should be able to find a better product out there that would still be in this price range.

[toddinmn]

Revere, Mezzo, WW is all the same product. Just different names and brochures. I don't like those products for a few reasons. Only two layers of weatherstripping (better products usually have at least 3). the vinyl extrusion thickness is .060 mil (one of the thinnest vinyls in the industry), relies on stick on fuzzy pads in the corners to lower the AI rating at testing. After a few years these fall off and what will be the AI rating then? I have a WW sales sample in my office and it has sat in a climate controlled area for about 3 years (in the warehouse). One of the fuzzy pads have fell off and the sash is sagging, keep in mind this is a 20'' wide window. This is due from the super thin vinyl and lack of any substantial reinforcements. The Mezzo could have an AI rating of .01 and I still wouldn't recommend because guess what at year 2-3 when the vinyl sags/droops/weatherstrip flattens and the corner pads are laying in the garden that AI isn't going to mean anything. A well designed product will be more likely to hold its AI rating for the life of the product. There are better products out there that are in this price range thats why I don't recommend. Also I have sold over 5,000 Mezzo's so I'm familiar with all the aspects of that product .... I certainly would understand if someone didn't want to spend an extra 3k but you should be able to find a better product out there that would still be in this price range.

What does Sunrise use In there corners?
Do you know the gauge of vinyl on the Sunrise?
Having sold over 5000 Mezzo's do you know there performance. Numbers?

[WindowsDirectCinci]

On Restorations the weatherstripping is integrated into the frame and covers the entire length the sash. fiberglass reinforced sashes. There are several windows out there that have similar design features. As far as performance number on alside obviously u-value and shgc is glass dependent but standard low-e argon is .29 /.30 . Ai rating will range from .05 to .14 if you opt to steel reinforcement vs there so called "composite". I'll add also that when I sold them back in 14/15 if you got the steel reinforced option the window would then have weep holes and wasn't a welded sill on windows over 60" height. Not sure why and not sure if this is still the case.

[Delaware Mike]

Sunrise double hung units don't feature anything in the corners in terms of the likes of a "fuzzy cheater pad." They also hate the more common interlocks, thus they don't have any. They double up the lock sash outer face weatherstripping in two horizontal layers, the keeper sash just has one. Pretty basic and simple. Guess it seems to somehow work nicely as I've found their windows to be pretty tight and not have any potential air leakage issues.

Ironically, I have hit some of their walls with a calibrated Starrett 0-1" micrometer and the readings are all over the place. Some walls are .060" while others are at .080". I'd like to see some more comparable walls to what Soft-Lite and OKNA is offering in all honestly, but that pertains more to the sill design which is very sleek and low profile for minimal glass loss, but it's tricky to shim and level at times. Never an issue that a experienced field fix can't resolve though.

[HomeSealed]

And this is why I am enjoying the answers here.....novel coming up:

Worth the extra money to have windows that do not leak like a sieve....with that statement are you saying that I should stay clear of the Revere's as well?

And WOW....I will do some more research on the air numbers....but if your opinion, what is the biggest rating I should pay attention to when I'm looking at the NFRC rating?

Reason I ask....our windows now seem to be doing ok, but I know they aren't that efficient, don't open easily, etc but neighbors ask, "do you really need new windows?" I'm not worried about resale value, I'm more worried about day in and day out, if I spend $6,000 now am I really "wasting' money when I could save another $3,000 in a year and go with the top of the line windows for 9,000 ish?

You guys are obviously very experienced in this, so appreciate all the feedback, but if I get down to it, I want new windows for the look and the overall ease of use of them, and hope to save some money on my heating/cooling.....Let's say my current windows are costing me $200 a year in heat loss (I have no idea just throwing out a number) will the best windows only cost me $100 in heat loss and the "ok" windows cost me $150?

We live in an average size, traditional two story home in the Midwest. If my home was a $500,000 house I could see going the top of the line, but we don't. I also don't want the basic entry level builder grade stuff that's in here now, or the Window world basic.

I work in IT....so I have people that want newer, faster computers....but their job doesn't require the work that will benefit them from the newer faster top of the line computer. That's how I'm trying to relate to it, because most standard homeowners just see the window installed and don't really know what goes into what is behind their trim, so is it really worth spending an extra $3500?

I would assume that anything I get is going to be better than what we have, but just trying to pick your brains if I need the Lexus vs. the Toyota, if the end result still gets me to work and is better than the stripped down geo metro?

Hopefully this makes sense, not wanting you guys to make the decision for me, but maybe this gives you an idea of my thinking, and helpful for others who use this site for your input, (which again thank you) my wife probably thinks I'm nuts

Bill, i know this can be difficult, but I'd encourage you try try and remove the price delta from your decision making process. Not remove PRICE, but remove the difference between them. The higher number still sounds like it's within the normal range of reason for a good product. I always encourage folks to get the best window that your budget will allow, unless of course it is too low where it will not even justify the purchase, which does not seem to be the case here. You used both computers and cars as analogies here, both of which have merit. A higher end window will perform at a higher level and for a longer period of time. It will also be relevant in terms of design and technology for a longer period of time... Beyond the product itself, you also need to consider the installation and service of the company installing. Which do you feel more comfortable with? Which do you feel will do a better installation and service you better after the sale? These are impaortant factors for a large investment... not recommending one way or the other, just food for thought

[billb1981]

Thanks for all the thoughts guys, I keep going back and forth, so this is good conversation. And you are right Homesealed. I'm hoping to get a couple more in the middle quotes.

[WindowsDirectCinci]

Thanks for all the thoughts guys, I keep going back and forth, so this is good conversation. And you are right Homesealed. I'm hoping to get a couple more in the middle quotes.

I'm not sure if Polaris serves your area or not. But you should be able to find one of there 2 upper windows in the price ranges your asking about. Even though I haven't seen it I know they just updated there mid level window and their sales rep keeps hounding me about taking it into consideration. May be worth a look

[toddinmn]

On Restorations the weatherstripping is integrated into the frame and covers the entire length the sash. fiberglass reinforced sashes. There are several windows out there that have similar design features. As far as performance number on alside obviously u-value and shgc is glass dependent but standard low-e argon is .29 /.30 . Ai rating will range from .05 to .14 if you opt to steel reinforcement vs there so called "composite". I'll add also that when I sold them back in 14/15 if you got the steel reinforced option the window would then have weep holes and wasn't a welded sill on windows over 60" height. Not sure why and not sure if this is still the case.

Alside list the Mezzo with an air infiltration of 0.04, an Uvalue down to 0.27 depending on glass pack and foam options. It shows a composite reinforcement as standard. The st option brings air to 0.08 this would not be an option typically ordered? So you sold over 5000 of these? would love to hear what you told the customer then.