Replacing windows- Kansas- any suggestions?

[toddinmn]

Thanks for all the thoughts guys, I keep going back and forth, so this is good conversation. And you are right Homesealed. I'm hoping to get a couple more in the middle quotes.

I'm not sure if Polaris serves your area or not. But you should be able to find one of there 2 upper windows in the price ranges your asking about. Even though I haven't seen it I know they just updated there mid level window and their sales rep keeps hounding me about taking it into consideration. May be worth a look

There new window is pretty nice, similar to the Pro-Via from what I understand.

[toddinmn]

Sunrise double hung units don't feature anything in the corners in terms of the likes of a "fuzzy cheater pad." They also hate the more common interlocks, thus they don't have any. They double up the lock sash outer face weatherstripping in two horizontal layers, the keeper sash just has one. Pretty basic and simple. Guess it seems to somehow work nicely as I've found their windows to be pretty tight and not have any potential air leakage issues.

Ironically, I have hit some of their walls with a calibrated Starrett 0-1" micrometer and the readings are all over the place. Some walls are .060" while others are at .080". I'd like to see some more comparable walls to what Soft-Lite and OKNA is offering in all honestly, but that pertains more to the sill design which is very sleek and low profile for minimal glass loss, but it's tricky to shim and level at times. Never an issue that a experienced field fix can't resolve though.

Not a fan of the lack of interlock.
Sill design is week as stated, unfortunately Mike does not install all there Windows. Sills frequently have to be screwed down.
There lift rail-glazing bead combo is a poor design as well .

[WindowsDirectCinci]

On Restorations the weatherstripping is integrated into the frame and covers the entire length the sash. fiberglass reinforced sashes. There are several windows out there that have similar design features. As far as performance number on alside obviously u-value and shgc is glass dependent but standard low-e argon is .29 /.30 . Ai rating will range from .05 to .14 if you opt to steel reinforcement vs there so called "composite". I'll add also that when I sold them back in 14/15 if you got the steel reinforced option the window would then have weep holes and wasn't a welded sill on windows over 60" height. Not sure why and not sure if this is still the case.

Alside list the Mezzo with an air infiltration of 0.04, an Uvalue down to 0.27 depending on glass pack and foam options. It shows a composite reinforcement as standard. The st option brings air to 0.08 this would not be an option typically ordered? So you sold over 5000 of these? would love to hear what you told the customer then.

All the numbers I listed are on there tech center. Pretty easy to verify. There "composite" reinforcement is not a reinforcement at all if you have ever seen a cut away. A 1/16 inch piece of "composite" laying in the meeting rail and doesn't make any contact with the sash besides loosely laying there wouldn't qualify as a reinforcement in my book. It's main purpose is so the locks are screw through more than one price of vinyl. It was company policy to order with steel because of this so the Windows would actually be reinforced. Its obvious they use the word foam loosely also because they aren't any where close to being foam insulated. Foam and composite reinforced sounds good on paper though. And it's not hard to sell 3000 windows a yr when you worked for a marketing machine at $300ish a pop. Any more questions todd

[Delaware Mike]

Todd, I've installed thousands of Sunrise Vanguard double hung units and their regular base Sunrise series over the years. I know where you going with the screw in the sill issue. We installers certainly don't like our sills to look like Grumpy Cat's mouth, that we can agree upon. I don't like the fix method of screwing the sill level regardless of siliconing the screw threads and plugging the precision bore hole with more silicone and a factory cap. It creates more issues with the screen corner gaps since Sunrise doesn't offer a locking screen for force it downward tight to the outer sill.

I've found that setting the window upon shims to the corners will usually relax the sill enough to make things work correctly and we simply prefer a Soft-Lite Elements or OKNA 800 on wider units, thus I don't even suggest Vanguards on super wide openings unless that's what a homeowner truly desires. I still like the product very much, but it's hard for me to spend more to purchase a product that requires more time to install. I'd rather put that time into trim work and exterior custom profile metal work.

[toddinmn]

Todd, I've installed thousands of Sunrise Vanguard double hung units and their regular base Sunrise series over the years. I know where you going with the screw in the sill issue. We installers certainly don't like our sills to look like Grumpy Cat's mouth, that we can agree upon. I don't like the fix method of screwing the sill level regardless of siliconing the screw threads and plugging the precision bore hole with more silicone and a factory cap. It creates more issues with the screen corner gaps since Sunrise doesn't offer a locking screen for force it downward tight to the outer sill.

I've found that setting the window upon shims to the corners will usually relax the sill enough to make things work correctly and we simply prefer a Soft-Lite Elements or OKNA 800 on wider units, thus I don't even suggest Vanguards on super wide openings unless that's what a homeowner truly desires. I still like the product very much, but it's hard for me to spend more to purchase a product that requires more time to install. I'd rather put that time into trim work and exterior custom profile metal work.

I have not done many but my corners were usually shimmed, more so for height adjustment than anything.Perhaps I was not patient enough to let them relax.

[toddinmn]

On Restorations the weatherstripping is integrated into the frame and covers the entire length the sash. fiberglass reinforced sashes. There are several windows out there that have similar design features. As far as performance number on alside obviously u-value and shgc is glass dependent but standard low-e argon is .29 /.30 . Ai rating will range from .05 to .14 if you opt to steel reinforcement vs there so called "composite". I'll add also that when I sold them back in 14/15 if you got the steel reinforced option the window would then have weep holes and wasn't a welded sill on windows over 60" height. Not sure why and not sure if this is still the case.

Alside list the Mezzo with an air infiltration of 0.04, an Uvalue down to 0.27 depending on glass pack and foam options. It shows a composite reinforcement as standard. The st option brings air to 0.08 this would not be an option typically ordered? So you sold over 5000 of these? would love to hear what you told the customer then.

All the numbers I listed are on there tech center. Pretty easy to verify. There "composite" reinforcement is not a reinforcement at all if you have ever seen a cut away. A 1/16 inch piece of "composite" laying in the meeting rail and doesn't make any contact with the sash besides loosely laying there wouldn't qualify as a reinforcement in my book. It's main purpose is so the locks are screw through more than one price of vinyl. It was company policy to order with steel because of this so the Windows would actually be reinforced. Its obvious they use the word foam loosely also because they aren't any where close to being foam insulated. Foam and composite reinforced sounds good on paper though. And it's not hard to sell 3000 windows a yr when you worked for a marketing machine at $300ish a pop. Any more questions todd[/

The numbers I got are from their website, whether or not the foam or composite are more or less than they should be , the AAMA and NFRC numbers are there. Perhaps they are using a cheater window for testing?

[billb1981]

Alright....now you guys are getting all technical. Guess I am going to start talking IT stuff, or maybe pontoon things.

Appreciate the input this is all good stuff, maybe I should become a moderator.

[toddinmn]

We have a week spot for car talk, maybe pontoon talk would suffice? What pontoon you like best? I would think the Yamaha is the best engine to run.

[WindowsDirectCinci]

The numbers I got are from their website, whether or not the foam or composite are more or less than they should be , the AAMA and NFRC numbers are there. Perhaps they are using a cheater window for testing?[/quote]

Alside Windows.net

[toddinmn]

That link was great info, would love other brands to have something similar.
Looks like there air numbers stay at 0.04 with composite with an exception on the 1 large one.
You'll see air numbers fluctuating with different test sizes no matter what brand and it is the norm to print only one number or in Alsides and Soft-Lites case 2 , due to the fact they tested more than one configuration.

[masterext]

I dont know how in the world alside gets aways with claiming the mezzo has reinforcement. I also saw a corner cut and there is no way that can be considered reinforcement, its absurd.
They also load the window with fuzz pads.

[TheWindowNerd]

I dont know how in the world alside gets aways with claiming the mezzo has reinforcement. I also saw a corner cut and there is no way that can be considered reinforcement, its absurd.
They also load the window with fuzz pads.

We all know there is a lot of BS in the business. Hard for the honest fellas to tolerate.
Hopefully that is why and what home owners come to this site to get, a straight scoop.

theWindowNerd.

[uncle eddie]

That is not reinforcement. It's piece of sill expander stuck into a chamber in the meeting rail.

[billb1981]

Well here's where I'm at. I decided to call another local company here in town that have a few options, so we'll see what they say.

Window Universe Express, (Revere Berkshire with Barrier XP) - $6019
Window World 4000- $6400
Preservation- $8400
Sunrise- Restorations- $10,960
Soft-Lite Elements- $12,883

[WindowsDirectCinci]

Bill, is the Window Universe being installed by Alside? or do they have a location there? Obviously the two most expensive are the better products although I think your mixing the lines, Vanguard is a Sunrise line as is Restorations.