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I have read a couple of other posts that indicated some problems with misaligned grids in SuperSpacer-equipped glass packages.

I recently had 14 double-hung windows replaced, 5 with grids. Glass by Guardian.

Out of the 10 sashes, 5 had grids that were out of true by 1/8" or more. In other words, half of them went back. The next batch was inspected by the owner of the window company that did my installation. (Direct employees did the install. The job foreman is Installation Masters Certified). The owner sent the sashes back, all with alignment problems. He involved his mfr rep and the rep's VP.

This third batch was supposed to be QC-monitored before it left the glass company, and certainly before the glass packages were installed in the vinyl sashes. Of this group of 5 sashes, we had to send 3 back: One for being the wrong size--inches too big for the opening, and 2 for alignment problems 1/8" and 1/16" (but on a short horizontal span, it looked like an arch).

The owner of the window company has been very accommodating and helpful, with regular follow-ups and multiple conversations with the mfr rep. He has handled it extremely professionally, making sure that (a) the grids that get installed are within the 1/16" tolerances that Guardian says they maintain, and (b) that I am 100% satisfied. This is a perfect example of what you advise about installer selection: Pay attention to reputation and service after the sale. I did, and am very glad for it. The owner of this company is outstanding in both regards.

What is your take? I believe it is reasonable not to see arches and un-parallel grids. When does it become unreasonable to continue insisting on good alignment? Some of my other sashes have minor visible problems, but they're within the Guardian spec, so I'm good with it. The replacement window mfr gets mentioned frequently as one of the top 5. Again, your advice has been invaluable: Good company, good warranty.

Thanks!

I don't see anything unreasonable about your concerns. This type of situation really does highlight the value of going with a reputable company. I'm sure they will work hard to satisfy you.

I agree with Sky .
Hope you will report back when resolved and tell us the mfg and the contractor.

Anthony and Sky,

Thanks for the supportive comments. Sorry to leave y'all hanging, but there has been nothing to report until now.

The windows are Soft-Lite Imperial LS (glass package by Guardian), sold and installed by Weber Windows of Louisville, KY.

I am *very* happy with Weber. They have worked proactively with Soft-Lite to get me sashes with properly-aligned grids. The owner told me not to worry about payment in full until I am satisfied.

That said, I still have grid problems. Recall that 5 sashes out of 10 were visibly misaligned. The first batch of replacements were refused by Weber for the same problem. Of the second batch of replacements, I sent three sashes back for visible problems and one because it was totally the wrong size. So I still needed four sashes out of the five I originally refused. That was late September/early October.

The week before Thanksgiving, Weber's head installer made an appointment to deliver the four sashes. Two of them were excellent. The other two--both from for the same window opening--had to be returned because one was the wrong size (again) and the other grid was out of alignment.

Weber says their Soft-Lite rep has been actively involved. Weber has been extremely helpful, and I am very pleased with their level of after-sale support. If I had bought Soft-Lite at the local builder supply and gone with their installer, I'm pretty sure my after-sale service would not have been so good.

On the other hand, I'm not impressed with Guardian. They say the grids are hand-aligned using a laser. Yet the problems I'm sending back have been obvious, nothing you'd need a laser or tape measure to identify. I really hope that grids are Guardian's only QC problem, because I don't want my glass packages to fail prematurely.

I will report back when this has been fixed to my satisfaction.

Please keep us up to date on your progress. Hopefully this isn't an indication that Softlite has started slipping in QC. Sounds like you chose an excellent contractor who is willing to work to make thing right for you.

Update:

The two remaining sashes were to go in the same opening. I had asked that originals be replaced because the vertical grids in the top sash were "out" by 1/4" and 1/8" respectively with respect to the vertical grids in the bottom sash. The window company owner and I agreed that laying out the grids of both sashes would yield a better chance for good alignment. Doing just one sash would be iffy, and if it aligned, it would be lucky.

Two tries at replacements yielded a top sash of the correct size for the opening and a bottom sash that was too large.

Fast forward to yesterday. The lead installer for my window company arrived with the top sashes (two or three) that had been made so far--and no new bottom sash. He had neglected to inform me that the Soft-Lite rep ("Mike") had instructed them to bring out the top sashes that had been made to date and find the one that had the best alignment, and "make it work".

I had been told from the first that the tolerance for alignment was 1/16". Yesterday the secondhand word from Mike, the Soft-Lite rep, was that 1/8" is the QC tolerance. Well, the best top sash of the group is "out" about 1/8" on both vertical grids.

By comparison, the four other openings with grids were aligned nearly perfectly from the get-go.

This visit also added a new twist. I asked the installer if my company intended to step out of the middle and leave me to deal with Soft-Lite directly? He answered, "Yes." I do not have confirmation from the window company owner yet.

So... the questions:

- Is it reasonable to expect my window company to stay involved?
- Is 1/8" off OK by industry standards?
- What is a reasonable expectation for a resolution?
- Is it time to just shut up and be happy?

Thanks for any insights and counsel you can offer. Also, is this something that I could be cross-post to the Questions forum?

Thanks!

My experience is that the 1/8" tolerance is about as good as you are going to get. I've dealt with grid issues like yours on jobs from many manufacturers. For example I had a job with pencil brass grids a while back with Sunrise(Cardinal Glass) that took a year of sending new sashes for the company to finally get them all straight.
The problem is if a customer has a couple grids way off then they inspect all the grids in the house and expect perfection by the time any replacements come in. Grids that they would not of even noticed they now inspect with a fine tooth comb. Unfortunately perfection is not always possible when dealing with internal grids because they can move slightly during the manufacturing process of the glass.
My suggestion is to ask yourself: are these grids that are 1/8" off going to noticeable to the public when looking at your home? Is it something that is going to bother you every time you look at the house? Or, will you go about your daily life and never even notice them again? These are questions to ask yourself to decide what to do. .

Window4U,

Thanks for your helpful response. Knowing that such problems are common puts this in perspective. I have considered what you said about daily life and what visitors and passers-by will see. And about the fine-toothed comb. The sash that ended up in the opening is better than the original it replaced. It looks good from outside. We don't spend much daylight time in that room, so we're not looking out that window a lot. This is not going to bother me long-term.

After mulling it over, I have decided that I can and should be pleased with the outcome. Especially considering the absolute professional experience I have had with my window sales/install company. Weber Windows and Soft-Lite have gone above and beyond to make sure everything is right and that I'm happy.

The windows are performing well and have made a noticeable difference in my home's comfort during our first real cold snap of this winter. Our heat cycles off and on down to abut 15 degrees now. Before, it would come on once the temps reached 25 or so. Big difference.

A word about my experience with this forum: After reading here extensively, I posted many, many questions about window performance and choosing an installer. The information here helped me make the best possible decision for my needs. Thank you to you, and to the other pros here for generously sharing your time and knowledge.

Cheers!

It sounds like Weber pushed like no other with the manufacturer to provide you their service and product recommendation to a good product and a good company. It sounds like Weber went above and beyond the norm and made it to the point that the manufacturer said enough is enough so with no other stand to make they asked the manufacturer representative for help. From reading many posts here as well, I wish everyone had a Weber for their installations and after sale service. It seems the owner is passionate about exceeding the customers expectations and I bet he feels pretty frustrated he could not meet that goal.

JScott,

You got it. Weber involved the mfr rep from the very beginning. The owner assured me up front that his goal was that I be 110% satisfied, not just 100%.



Everything about the after-the sale service supports your statement. He has expressed on several occasions his frustration with the imperfections. He took my side with the mfr rep. He went above and beyond the call to make me happy because, as he says, lots of dealer/installers have great products and decent prices. This is what sets him and his company apart.

So the value Weber adds is absolute commitment to customer satisfaction. I also found the owner's product knowledge is superior. He was impressed with what I had learned in this forum and was able to intelligently help me choose the right window for my unique situation and requirements.

The Soft-Lite rep also worked hard for me. He took my concerns to Inter-something (?), the company that lays up the grids. At the end of the day, by his count, it took eight sashes to get it right for the five original sashes that were misaligned. By my count it was ten. I don't blame him for wanting to call it done. And with Window4U's counsel earlier in this thread, I was able to agree to a reasonable standard of quality, based on several considerations he mentioned.

The mfr rep called me a few days ago to discuss my situation. He explained that the company that lays up the grids and SuperSpacer has a 1/8" tolerance. He worked with them to get 1/16" where the grids were visibly out of whack at 1/8" (supported by Window4U in an earlier post in this thread). He explained that alignment with SuperSpacer is difficult because it is elastic. (Corroborated elsewhere in this forum.) But he went above and beyond the call by insisting on a higher standard where the lenient one was visibly wrong.



I cannot agree more. I appreciate you and every pro on this forum who has consistently stressed the critical importance of hiring the right installer. Also, my personal thanks to you for directing me to Google the Gorell dealer in Louisville. This is who I turned up--I don't know if it was who you intended. But I can recommend my sales/install company to anyone without reservation. I could not be happier.

Not to say that this has not been a little inconvenient. But the owner said to me: "If you ever get a headache over this, I'm not doing my job right." And I have not had a single headache. Maybe a flutter when, without prepping me first, they showed up and asked me to accept the best of the lot. Hence this thread about alignment. But I got over it. The end result is satisfactory within all reasonable standards.

Many thanks to you, Window4U, Sky, and Anthony for your comments, support, and advice.