Price too low for Simonton?

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JToddM
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Price too low for Simonton?

#1 Post by JToddM »

I live in a mid-century modern house built in 1965, and it still has all of the original windows. In addition to some casement windows, there are what I call eye-brow windows under the eaves on either side of the front of the house. I'll attach a picture below.

Here's what I'm replacing:
2 Single Casements: 24x40
2 Single Casements: 17x66
4 Double Casements: 48x40
4 Trapezoids: 62x26
4 Trapezoids: 62x51
Sliding Patio Door: 96x84

My quotes from Andersen, Mastic, and Gorell were around $30,000.

Then I had a quote from a dealer for Simonton windows: $8930.

As a caveat, I have to say that the Simonton dealer didn't tell me what line of Simonton those were and I've written a follow up e-mail asking him to clarify. I had another Simonton dealer tell me that he couldn't even get the windows for that price, but he offered to do the job without the patio door for $8920 (Simonton 5500 LoE 366). The second guy also talked about his install process and mentioned that he used "pipe insulation" on his window installs. Is that normal or useful?

I'm ruling out the Andersen, Mastic, and Gorell, but I'm a little concerned that the Simonton quotes are too low. Should I be concerned?

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HomeSealed
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#2 Post by HomeSealed »

The special shape windows along with the huge patio door really drive up the cost. It is hard to say whether the high end quotes are fair or not without all of the specifics of the job, but I can say pretty confidently that the Simonton quote is "scary-low". You might look at getting another quote or two to compare. if they still come in on that high side, it would seem pretty obvious as to which one is out of whack. Depending upon where you are located, I'd recommend checking out Softlite, HiMark, Sunrise, and Okna product offerings.

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Randy
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#3 Post by Randy »

Yes, I think you should be concerned. But then, the higher prices could be out of line as well. I'd try getting a quote from a Sunrise, Okna, or Soft-lite dealer on their higher lines. I know it's not fun sitting through a presentation, but in your case, I'd probably get one or two more quotes.

Let us know what you come up with.

JToddM
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#4 Post by JToddM »

Thanks. I'll check out the other companies you mention. I've tried to find an Okna dealer, but apparently they don't sell in Kansas. Perhaps the other companies do.

EcoStar Remodeling
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#5 Post by EcoStar Remodeling »

I would also highly recommend you look at an actual sample of whatever casement window you decide to go with. Often people are disappointed at the cosmetic differences between double hungs and casements by the same manufacturer.
Last edited by EcoStar Remodeling on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Randy
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#6 Post by Randy »

Sorry, I didn't catch that you were in Kansas. Okna is not available there, but Sunrise and Soft-lite are. Of the two, Sunrise has the nicer casement by far.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#7 Post by HomeSealed »

I agree with randy that Sunrise and Softlite are going to be the top choices in your area. The Sunrise is very nice and I like it better as well, but depending on the install company, price, etc, I would not hesitate to choose the Softlite either... Its close enough that I'd let the install company be the primary factor in your decision between the two.

HoustonWindowExperts
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Location: Houston, TX The Woodlands, TX

Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#8 Post by HoustonWindowExperts »

JToddM,

You should check around for an NT Window dealer in your area. NT is a good mid-range vinyl window with Low-e 366, Aluminum reinforced meeting rail and double strength glass standard. With as many shapes as you have, this may be an option for you.

I also like that they are 100% made in the USA!

Keep us posted.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#9 Post by Windows on Washington »

HoustonWindowExperts wrote:JToddM,

You should check around for an NT Window dealer in your area. NT is a good mid-range vinyl window with Low-e 366, Aluminum reinforced meeting rail and double strength glass standard. With as many shapes as you have, this may be an option for you.

I also like that they are 100% made in the USA!

Keep us posted.
NT is a good window.

HiMark, Soft-Lite, and Sunrise are also made by American workers with American extrusions so that is not that much of a differentiator.

JToddM
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#10 Post by JToddM »

Thanks, all, for the information. I've contacted the three other companies for a dealer and will set up appointments in the coming days.

I realized that I forgot to attach the promised picture to my original message, so here it is:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jtoddm/458 ... 3628609231

HoustonWindowExperts
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Location: Houston, TX The Woodlands, TX

Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#11 Post by HoustonWindowExperts »

Nice home!

We don't see too many like that here in Houston. Most of our homes are newer construction with attention to profits more than to craftsmanship.

Be sure to post some "after" pictures.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#12 Post by Windows on Washington »

JToddM wrote:Thanks, all, for the information. I've contacted the three other companies for a dealer and will set up appointments in the coming days.

I realized that I forgot to attach the promised picture to my original message, so here it is:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jtoddm/458 ... 3628609231
Are you thinking of replacing those front triangular windows?

If so, be prepared for an expense of some magnitude. They are expensive units.

That being said, I am not sure I would recommend replacing those units at all. They are sealed so air infiltration is a non-issue and you are really only dealing with heat loss or radiant heat gain (very likely to be slight given the deep overhang).

Please provide more details.

masterext
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#13 Post by masterext »

didnt carol and mike brady live in that house back in the day?

JToddM
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#14 Post by JToddM »

masterext wrote:didnt carol and mike brady live in that house back in the day?
I always tell people to look for the Brady Bunch house. :D

To answer the earlier question, those triangular windows are the trapezoids I mention in my original post. You say that they are "sealed," but I'm not sure what you mean by that. They are protected by the overhang, but I have that around the whole house, so all of the windows are in a similar situation. The triangular windows are single panes that are just held in place by wood frames. One even has a bb hole in it.

My living room is behind the triangular windows on the right side of the picture. That room also has the 8' patio door that I plan to replace. It's an aluminum door that original to the house (1965) and faces the west. I have an exterior shade on that door that I use to minimize the heat gain in the summer, but the door is very drafty.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Price too low for Simonton?

#15 Post by Windows on Washington »

Be sealed, I mean are they sealed IGUs (i.e. dual pane glass).

The answer in this case is no.

They are sealed from the standpoint that they are inoperable units and should therefore be sealed against air infiltration.

You will find that most manufacturers will have difficulty making those triangular units or trapezoids with short leg dimensions.

If the windows are otherwise in good shape (obviously you would need to replace that glass with the BB hole), I would suggest creating a secondary barrier to the inside via a custom storm window application if you issue is radiant/conductive/convective heat loss.

If your issue is heat gain, I would recommend getting the windows tinted with a solar control film to control the radiant heat gain.

Replacing the door is advisable but you might want to think carefully about the windows in this case. You will loose a decent bit of glass in the change over and if the rationale is solely for controlling heat loss, that is a big investment for a small ROI.

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