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Author: | Timoteo |
Subject: | Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-16 19:43:32 |
I am researching replacement windows and I found some data relating to air infiltration and I am confused by what they mean. The window was tested a DP40, which if I understand things correctly, is the same as a 25mph wind. The CAN/CSA rating was A2 and the ANSI/AAMA/NWWDA rating was H-R20. My question is are these rating good or bad? And how do they relate to the NFRC's Air Leakage ratings?
Thanks in advance for any information.
Timoteo
Author: | troll |
In Reply To: | Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Timoteo) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-16 20:46:35 |
Check out Oberons reply to a post by Shelly Boyd on 8/14/2004
Author: | Oberon |
In Reply To: | Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Timoteo) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-16 21:56:01 |
Heck of a question Timoteo...you really don't want to go there! I am getting "bad chills" just imagining trying to remember all the data you are asking about.
I will go into your question a little bit, but if you want more information I would recommend a serious internet search.
ANSI - American National Standards Institute
AAMA - American Architectural Manifacturers Association
NWWDA - National Wood Window and Door Association
The NWWDA no longer exists - it is now the WDMA which is the Window and Door Manufacturers Association.
That H-R20...I am not certain what that means, but I suspect it is a particular manufacturers product designation?
ANSI/AAMA/NWWDA 101/I.S.2-97, Canadian CSA 440-98, etc. refer to window and door windload and water resistance testing standards.
The NFRC was established to provide a way to compare (accurate and fair and impartial) and certify U-values, solar heat gain factors, optical properties, air infiltration, condensation resistance, long term energy performance, and whatever else might impact on your window's energy performance.
If you have specific questions about any of this stuff, I will be glad to try to help, otherwise, I would suggest not worrying about it specifically. People like FenEx and me are paid to worry about this stuff...for consumers, I would suggest trying to understand the performance and not worrying about what certifications the windows have.
Author: | windowmann2000 |
In Reply To: | Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Timoteo) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-16 23:09:37 |
This really should be fielded by Fen Ex. But I'll give it a little shot. The Canadian std's are pretty much like the US's. Here for example the minimum std for air infiltration is .30cfm cubic feet of air per minute, a rather high #, Canada groups window's in category of .15 to .25 and classifies it as an A-2 for example, what I'm trying to say is that it's not definitive enough.
Soon in the US the NFRC label's well have the air test on the label and the DP rating, that along with the other info on the label should give everyone a better idea of the quality of the window. That is at least something to compare to if they understand the basic's.
Personally I think a double hung window should be at least DP45, which means it's basically sound in as far as strength is concerned. Silverline which is usually regarded as a very low end window here has a DP of 40 on it's double hung, for what that's worth. The number's you mentioned above tells me your looking at an average window.
If you come across a window with a DP of 55 and up your looking at some Superior product's. Shuco which has a DP of 65 (not sure if that's on the double hung or slider) is regarded as one of the best, so if you consider the best window's are in the 55-65 range, window's in the 20-25 range are on the lower end of the quality spectrum. Hope this help's.
Author: | Oberon |
In Reply To: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by windowmann2000) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-17 02:19:58 |
Really good answer W2000.
A much better answer than mine.
I admit I was in the middle of something when I replied and my response was pretty lousy. I was looking way too much into the question and didn't read the original very well.
I will offer the excuse that we all have our off days!
Author: | Timoteo |
In Reply To: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by windowmann2000) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-17 17:08:58 |
Yes, it was very helpful, thank you for the reply. This Discussion board is helping me to see that the most expensive product is not always the best.
Author: | Timoteo |
In Reply To: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Oberon) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-17 17:27:05 |
Oberon wrote:
I would suggest not worrying about it specifically. People like FenEx and me are paid to worry about this stuff...for consumers, I would suggest trying to understand the performance and not worrying about what certifications the windows have.
I'm making a big purchase so I like to educate myself so I do not get fooled. This site is a great resource for that.
Besides the "experts" that I have been dealing with all tell me that their product is the best. I double check everything these they tell me. Thanks to your help I discovered a product that is supposed to be the best is mearly average interms of wind infultration, dispite the fact that it cost 40% more.
Author: | Timoteo |
In Reply To: | Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Timoteo) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-17 17:32:50 |
Here is the information that the sales rep gave me
Test Air
Standard Tightness
--------------------------------------------
Performance DP40
Grade Ratings
--------------------------------------------
CAN/CSA A2
A440-M98
--------------------------------------------
ANSI/AAMA H-R20
NWWDA
I.S.2-97
The following is explanation of the chart above:
In this test, performance ratings are based on DP (design pressure or wind velocity) ratings established by the WDMA. As the DP increases, so does the wind velocity.
Testing is done by placing a window in a chamber room wall. The chamber room vacuum is activated to draw air out of the room. Pressure gauges record the variance in the air pressure within and outside the room to determine the amount of air passing through the window at a rate equivalent to 25 mph for DP15 through DP40 and 49.9 mph for DP ratings over forty. The higher the rating, the less air infiltration.
It is important to understand that under these wind load conditions, it is allowable for a window to leak air. The air leakage, however, must be below a fractional value established by the WDMA. If the leakage is greater than allowed, the window can be tested at lower levels until it does pass. The Printed information (DP rating) for air infiltration is the highest at which the window passed the test.
Author: | Oberon |
In Reply To: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Timoteo) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-17 21:16:49 |
What they are saying is that for windows rated at DP15 thru DP40, they test at windspeeds of 25mph and then measure air infiltration. At DP greater than 40, they test at 49.9 windspeed.
This sounds like something that the marketing folks came up with after reading the test requirements...the explanation is a bit awkward, in my opinion.
Author: | Arnold |
In Reply To: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by windowmann2000) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-18 17:10:56 |
With these numbers would you rank this window a
high-middle?
u-factor = 32
SHGC = 27
VT = 47
DP = 50
air = 0.13
water = 7.5
Author: | Window4U (IL) |
In Reply To: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Arnold) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-18 18:48:50 |
These ratings put it right in the middle of the pack.
But........ it's not quite that cut and dried. There are other features that can contribute to a window being considered a premium window such as glass spacers, vinyl composition, screen frame materials, welded corner appearance, counterbalance type, glazing methods, sill type, colors, nifty exclusive features and the general fit & finish of the window.
Ratings are only part of the window decision process, which is why a forum board like this one is such a great tool for homeowners in helping make informed decisions.
Author: | HillBilly |
In Reply To: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions (posted by Window4U (IL)) |
Subject: | RE: Air Infiltration Ratings Questions |
Posted At: | 2004-08-18 19:00:01 |
sounds purdy confuzing... I thinx I'll gits me some plastic and call it a day.