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| Author: | Guy |
| Subject: | RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 03:28:15 |
After reading posts about salesmen this past couple days I've lost it. I guess I really never had it. But I really feel sorry for you good hearted Americans who let people in your home to be Raped by crude sales people. I'm going to post (In my opinion only) the Green Light signs to kick a Salesmans ASS OUT THE DOOR! (Sorry Tim it's really softer than what I really wanted to say)
#1) If the salesman comes with no sample products
#2) If he says he's the owner, Manager or anything other than salesman.
#3) If they give you a better deal if you sign today.
#4) If the sales pitch lasts longer than one hour.
#5) If they have to call the boss to get a better deal
#6) If they call you DUDE (Here's your sign!!)
#7) If they bash any other window on the market not made by them.
#8) If they ask what you paid for your house!
#9) If they give you a discount for a sign in the yard.
(They should be proud of their work and just ask)
#10) If they offer any kind of Tiered discounts
#11) IF they're related to FenX, Oberon. W4U or myself
(Just Kidding. Checking to see if pulse is OK)
I'm sure there are some more FenX and some of the rest of the gang can post also. If they can't just sell you on Merit and Honor. Put on those pointed toed boots and kick with all you have. End it and move on. Your time is valuable. Don't waste it on some dumb ass salesman. I just can't believe people deo this to others. It's a sad day!! Sharpen up the toe and kick.
Git R Done!!!!!
| Author: | Window4U (IL) |
| In Reply To: | RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 04:07:35 |
Let's re-cap;
#2) If he says he's the owner, Manager or anything other than salesman.
*...Hey, that's not fair. I REALLY AM the General Manager and co-owner of my company! I'm not lying! I'm on salary. I don't even get paid a commission. It's true!
#4) If the sales pitch lasts longer than one hour.
*...That's not fair either. That doesn't even give me time to show pictures of my granddaughter or my sled dogs.
#7) If they bash any other window on the market not made by them.
*...Even if it's a Renewal?? Awww...Schucks. You're no fun.
*Seriously though Guy, this is going to be a good thread. Maybe some of the things we will post here will really educate consumers on the difference between a window man that's a professional.....and a "professional window salesman". Hopefully, some of these will not only give people some laughs, but some real warnings signs so they know when they are getting scammed. Good post.
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Window4U (IL)) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 05:28:22 |
I'm with you there. My post on the Owner or Manager is flawed. I only mean this if they use it as an excuse for not being able to answer your questions or give a proper bid. These people should be able to give you everything in gold. If they can't SEE YA!!! Windows 4U has a good point. We both own and operate our own business and sell. So we are in your home doing the job. But I know he comes prepared as I do. Hope this makes sense.
It should be fun to see the comments!!!
If you can't see the windows through the tall grass and vines. They might be Rednecks!!!
| Author: | Steve G. |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 08:44:14 |
Again, you guys are hilarious! But somehow, in amongst all the humor, that's a really good post, Guy!
Oh, by the way, my Marvin Integrity's are being installed as we speak. I've chatted with you about this at length before -- about how to do a proper install. You might remember our conversations.
What it boils down to is, for the $30 per window I told you these guys are charging me, they are not doing the whole shebang -- they are simply installing them plumb and square, and caulking the nail fins (I made it a point to demand that they do AT LEAST that, as you told me to. Fortunately, they said that they would not think of installing one without caulk.)
They also gave me a sample roll of some "protecto-wrap" type stuff -- I forget right now what they called it -- I think Tyvek makes it. Anyway, they told me that it would be wise for me to buy some and install it myself, or have someone else do it. They had a ton of it on their truck, so obviously they do this for folks who pay the "full price," whatever that is. Anyway, they seem real knowledgeable, and I trust them. They also told me to be CAREFUL with the foam (from the interior, between the window frame and the rough opening), only a little, and then stuff with fiberglass. So that's what I'll do.
Anyway, I thank you again for all your advice (from a month or so ago) on my window install, and for all the info you continue to share with us.
Steve
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Steve G.) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 11:54:23 |
sounds great. All the hard work pays off. Your going in the right direction
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 11:57:18 |
I got a new one
Coming on Tim's board and trying to sell yourself or product. Kick em out.
This is a place for help and information. Not leads. If the person would like to deal with you then they will email you on their own.
| Author: | FenEx |
| In Reply To: | RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 13:13:33 |
All in all, some good points... but a few of them have exceptions.
#1) If the salesman comes with no sample products
EX: If he/she is listening to your needs, they might end up taking you a different direction for the best product solution. Also, patio doors, bows and bays might not fit in their car.
#2) If he says he's the owner, Manager or anything other than salesman.
EX: They might actiually be... I still run leads occasionally. Ask for their business card.
#4) If the sales pitch lasts longer than one hour.
EX: A good rep does as much or more listening than they do talking... it can run over if the homeowner has alot of questions.
#5) If they have to call the boss to get a better deal
EX: Some employees are instructed to let a company owner decide if he can do better... afterall, it's his profit margin money.
#7) If they bash any other window on the market not made by them.
EX: Verbal bashing is bad, but in the course of showing you why their product is superior, it's sometimes makes the others look bashed anyways.
A few recommendations I could add:
- If he/she is holding a window sample when they knock on the door. How could they know what product will work best for you before you tell them your circumstances? That's like a doctor writing a prescription before the exam.
- Asking for the sale at the end of the presentation is a nessessary part of their job. Trying to help you overcome objections is too... but a NO is a NO. If they persist, just ask them to leave.
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by FenEx) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 13:21:50 |
I did reiterate the owner thing below. Got hasty in my writings.
I always tell my sale staff the bottom line. So it's up to them to sell the job and make some money. I guess not everyone does that.
I do agree bigtime with the bashing comment. A good sales person can show why their product is better with out criticism. That's the way it's suppose to be!!
Good Points "DUDE" (boot me) I knew you would have some good updates.
| Author: | E-Z |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 15:14:42 |
GUILTY
I have ocassionally put down a link to my website to illustrate a point. After reading this post i realized that that would fall in the category of trying to sell my self. You are right guy we need to keep this board clean from sales tactics and i for one will stop linking my website. Please forgive a brotha for i am only human.
E-Z
| Author: | Window4U (IL) |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by E-Z) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 15:37:40 |
EZ, I don't think it's bad to let people know who you are as long as you are contributiong to the forum with good advice, which you definitely ARE.
What irks a lot of people on here are the people who come on here with no advice to give, but rather just to post an ad for their company.
| Author: | gloria |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Window4U (IL)) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 18:41:13 |
This is my first post but I just can't resist any longer! What about 4 months of listening to FenEx and the Schuco? Does anyone remember the guy (Art)last year that posted hundreds of responses telling us about his Alside windows? And what about the guy that drove us nuts about Certaineed and the 2000 Consumer reports until Tim Johnson himself asked him to stop? Lets see who first bashes anothers window on this board. I don't think we will have to wait very long.
| Author: | tin man |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by E-Z) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 18:55:07 |
Guy and FedEx do more window bashing than anyone else. Interesting that they always agree with each other.
| Author: | FenEx |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by tin man) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 19:11:01 |
Tin Man
Guy's original post was to give suggestions of poor practice "In the home" by offering unsolicited or unrelated negatives about other products. This however is an open forum. Many posts from homeowners here begin with "Can you give me your opinions of a product?" Under those circumstances, even in a home, I would give an honest one... good or bad. I would imagine they want a truthful opinion as they are considering spending alot of money. Ask the next person posting for an opinion of a product if they would like an honest one even if it's bad... or if they would just like it sugar-coated with a smile. If they say the latter... that's all I'll offer to them. Fair enough?
| Author: | Art |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by gloria) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 20:07:22 |
Hi Gloria -
No, I'm NOT the Art you spoke of - just wanted to be clear on that point.
Relative to your remark about Fen Ex and Schuco - personally, I appreciate his straightforward manner. People come on here and ask 'what do you think of the XXX window'? What is a pro supposed to do? It must be extremely tedious to be answering the same question over and over but Fen Ex and the other pro's do so with class. With Fen Ex's years of experience, training and certification background, I believe that most would much rather listen to him and Window4U and Oberon and Guy and a few others than to some salesman that is devoid of the knowledge necessary to post accurate and to the point answers.
Having been a factory rep for a major manufacturer for some years and having become one because of my belief in the superiority of the product I sold, I can full well understand Fen Ex's feeling for Schuco.
While we all tire of constantly hearing about a particular brand time and again, what would you suggest to be different? Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think that most folks that come in here view Fen Ex's posts as being disparaging toward other brands - but simply telling it the way he sees it - and his experience dictates that he sees it from a professional viewpoint.
In fact, after reviewing a representative sample of the higher end windows available to me, I decided upon Schuco because of the perceived quality. In my estimation they definitely are head and shoulders above virtually any other brand and for less $$ than many others. Would you suggest that Fen Ex NOT talk about them?
| Author: | FenEx |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Art) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-28 21:03:37 |
Thanks Art, always nice to recieve notes of appreciation.
Gloria
I am interpreting your post as a comment to Guy's statement of those coming here to only promote their products and perhaps line their own pockets. I resent the affiliation. I have not made $1 from my time spent posting here... never intended to... I don't work for Schuco. When I found this board months back, I saw it as a great way for pros and homeowners alike to share information, new technologies and opinions. Did I read it wrong?
Since my arrival, I have tried to help many and have had much success (atleast that's what all the emails I recieve say) become aware of new technologies and virtually unknown U.S. products like Schuco and TPS Glazing that are a great investment for homeowners. In the process, numerous other manufacturers have inquired as well and are taking notice of the public awareness generated by sites like this and are looking to raise the bar. I have also tried to share information about addressing the house as a whole... as a system to increase energy efficiency and reserve natural resources. I have not pulled punches regarding products or so called industry standards that I don't belive in or care for. When I have been incorrect or inappropriate in my posts... I have promptly apologized or asked for them to be removed entirely. I am not saying my methods are right or just... but the intentions are.
Now a question for you. If you have been around the site that long, why have you never posted and contributed? Just waiting to criticize? Just milking the site for free info? Obviously not a consumer seeking advice... unless you have been shopping for two years just reading. It's also apparent you are not a pro with standards and conviction. or you wouldn't have waited this long to post (atleast under the "Gloria" name). It's my guess that you are a disgruntled employee of a lower end window product or just bored and wanted to stir up a little controversy. I noticed you didn't leave an email addy.
Thanks for the post, always nice to meet a fan that reads all my posts... even if they don't like them.
FenEx
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by tin man) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-29 01:21:11 |
tinman, I as others here answer questions honestly about product we've used or handles in our carriers. I never post on a product I know nothing about. I always try and stay fair to any question. I think I tend to agree with FenX, Oberon and Windows4U because we have all put in many years and agree on what we feel's best. Nothing wrong with that! Obviously you work for or sell one of the products we tell people not to choose. If this is the issue I have nothing personal against you. After you put 30 years in the trade lets see where your at and who you agree with.
We can also ask Tim if we are wrong or out of line. He's never emailed me or asked me to stop what I'm doing. When a customer comes to the board refered by Kent State University. I'd say the reputation is growing!!!
Any criticism is good if you can take it!!!
| Author: | Contractor |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by gloria) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-29 06:31:39 |
As usual, nice positive post Anon.......errr.. I mean Gloria.
| Author: | RickG |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by gloria) |
| Subject: | Sorry, Gloria, you are out of line |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-29 06:57:10 |
If you have spent four months looking at this side, I can't see how you would not know that the major contributors to this site, FenEx, Guy, Windows4U, Oberon, etc. are seasoned professionals wanting to give people like me, a home owner wanting to make a sound investment, some straight talk about what is important. Thus, it would appear you have ulterior motives or an axe to grind with some of their advice.
Yes, they do have opinions out their about particular product lines, and I'm thankful for it. If I thought they were doing it to line up more work for themselves, I would have abandoned this site after the first couple of visits. There are obviously people who to some degree or another have posted some kind of "opinion" to steer some business their way. Fortunately, they have been few and far between.
In my own quest for a window selection, the windows experts have provided names of products I would have otherwise not checked into for replacement possibilities and would have picked a mid-value window based on a person's opinion of the window they bought recently. He was happy with them, but a number of postings have suggested there are better alternatives. As a matter of fact, I probably would have bought the window made by my own company (I work for a different division, so their product is not well known to me), but there were a number of postings indicating specific issues about their products in general, so I'm not considering them as a candidate.
So, in a nutshell, I find your comments way too inflammatory given that they lack real hard information other than these guys have had an opinion based on years of being out there. If you have further specific real world information you can offer, like your experience in getting estimates or questions you have about a purchase, that would be very helpful and we would all like to hear it.
To the aforementioned windows experts and to those who have contributed their time and effort providing a zillion dollars worth of free advice, I thank you and I'm sure others who haven't said it thank you as well. You do honor to your profession.
| Author: | joe c from renewal |
| In Reply To: | RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | this certainy makes up for no sopranos episodes |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-29 01:58:21 |
because you are all so entertaining!
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | Sorry, Gloria, you are out of line (posted by RickG) |
| Subject: | RE: Sorry, Gloria, you are out of line |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-30 02:04:26 |
Thanks Rick, There's the only thing I ever need from this site. Someone to be happy!! For me this is what it's all about. Not money, Fame or my name in lights. Helping someone make the best decision they can. Nothing else or more.
Thank You Rick!!
Your why we do this!!!
Guy
| Author: | one hell of a salesman |
| In Reply To: | RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-31 00:31:10 |
Guy,
First of all by reading your statement, it sounds to me that you are a purchasing agent. You are only interested in one thing and one thing only and that is price. You are also probably one of those guys who will get ten estimates for 3windows. Talk about wasting time. How about this do us a favor and don't waste our time on your windows. Go to Lowes get a price of the window and end it there. If you think you can go through and get a full window presentation in less then 1 hr then you are crazy. Whens the last time you bought a car in 1 hr. Now I am dead set against bashing other companies. But its people like you that want sales men to bash companies. You people bring up questions like, How do you compare to... or do you know anything about... And last the reason why sales men have to show multipule discounts on their product is b/c people like you. you guys are not interested on what you purchase the windows at but you like to see how much you can get the sales man to take off. So that is why we start so high, and drop the price, Guess what, if the salesman sold it to you, then he made a profit. Our time is as valuble as yours if not more valuable, we dont just come over to talk we are coming to your house to get the sale.
| Author: | LOL |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by one hell of a salesman) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-31 03:57:47 |
You should stop being a salesman and become a comedian. You must not read many posts on this board but your reply has me rolling on the floor. I had to sit through a repressive presentation very similar to all Guys points. I was really impressed with the special factory discounts arrivng the next day that allowed me to get a special discount. Luckly the salesman had the desire to get me the best price so he called his manager. I did sign on the dotted line but after reading this board and becoming a bit more educated I cancelled the order. The sad part is that I was too stupid at the time to notice the saleman acted just like several used car salesmen I have been lucky enough to have met. I will not say all salesmen are bad, but if you have to lie and make up BS to sell your product and feel good afterward, you will get yours in the end. Anyway keep posting so I can keep laughing.
LOL
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! (posted by one hell of a salesman) |
| Subject: | RE: RULES ON BUYING WINDOWS FOR YOUR HOME!!!! |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-31 05:14:20 |
Dude Wake Up! I'm not a customer! I sell like you and install. Been doing it since 1974. How about you? I've been around the block and run over buy more cars than you've seen. I've fallen off roofs and had more window sales than you'll probably do in your life. One thing though between you and me. I give them the best price the first time. I don't need more than an hour to sell my product. It sells itself. If it takes longer it's because I'm answering questions from them. Keep on selling. I'll be right behind you taking it away.