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| Author: | Thad |
| Subject: | Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-02 00:07:49 |
I have not decided on Simonton windows, but would be interested in a quote.
Does anyone know of a reputable Simonton installer in the State of Maryland ... near Annapolis if possible (besides Home Depot & Sears)? I would prefer a smaller independent.
I went to the Simonton website, but did not feel comfortable with any of the installers listed.
Please let me know. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
| Author: | Art |
| In Reply To: | Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Thad) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-02 00:16:23 |
If you want Simonton you're on the right track. Stay away from HD and Sears - both are way overpriced for what you get. Absolutely find a Simonton direct dealer and enjoy the savings :)
| Author: | RCasement |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Art) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-02 00:30:15 |
Try finding a good carpender who does windows. They can shoot you a price per window openning plus material. Thats how I'm finding the best price.
| Author: | RCasement |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Art) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-02 02:28:51 |
Guy I am paying extra for the super spacer.
Is that nessarary?
| Author: | Window man |
| In Reply To: | Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Thad) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-02 22:07:14 |
check out schuco they will be less for more
| Author: | Thad |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Window man) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 00:59:09 |
The only Schuco dealer in Maryland is AES Builders ... I have tried to make an appointment, but they have REALLY ANNOYING. No call backs, then really pushy. They want my wife at the sales call (and she could care less ... actually told me that if they want her there then she doesn't even want their windows). Is this normal (I mean the Schuco requiring her to be there not her refusing to meet with them)?
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by RCasement) |
| Subject: | Oberon come in here please. Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 03:50:24 |
It shouldn't be. It's another ploy to mark stuff up. I'd balk that pitch. Tell them it's standard in almost everybody else's window. My manufacturer doesn't charge me extra for it. Maybe Oberon will have some words of wisdom.
| Author: | Contractor |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Thad) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 04:27:06 |
I do give estimates to one spouse, but not by choice. I just don't pre-qualify my appointments, so it is something that I face with no warning. Sometimes it works out great, and the other spouse trusts their mates decisions, but more often than not, it is a total waste of my time.
Put yourself in our shoes Thad. How would you like to spend half your week going out to give demos and estimates to only one spouse, only to have them say after two hours, "Boy I really like your window, it's the best thing I have ever seen and would really like to go with you, but I'll have to talk it over with my spouse", because they would kill me if I made a decision without talking it over with them.
I might as well have not even have come to your home. Let me give you some inside info. We sell maybe 5% of these calls, compared to 30-50% where both spouses are present. Selling our product is what we are in business for. It makes us our living, feeds our children, pays our bills and keeps us in business.
If you think you are going to be able to describe to your spouse at a later time what the window looks like, what the features were that were better than the other guy's window, what benefits the salesman's company affords you, and come up with a successful sales pitch to your spouse to win her over to my window, you give yourself too much credit. It just doesn't happen very often.
If this were your company, and you had to spend $40 in gas and a third of your valuable day on one of these calls, you would understand. And even these type of calls that do end up as sales usually require a second full sales call to show the spouse everything I showed their partner the first time.
Just because it's a free estimate to you, that doesn't mean it's not going to cost the window company and salesman out of pocket money and a chance to make a decent living.
A window company has every right to demand both partners be there. And of course you have a perfect right to say no, and waste the time of another company.
| Author: | Thad |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Contractor) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 14:47:49 |
Thanks for your reply contractor. On the whole it made sense. (Although when I think of the mark-up on the installation of windows, I will not lose any sleep about the starving families of window installers ... the cost of unsuccessful sales calls is definitely priced in the installation of the windows and passed along to the customers.)
In my case, however, I will be the sole decision maker on the windows. My wife is a brillant person, but she is busy with other things and could care less about Window A vs. Window B. I could justify the decision to her in one sentence.
I have just found the entire window buying process different than any other home project that I have encountered. I have never had a painter, electrician, plumber, etc. require that my wife be present when getting a bid.
I guess part of my confusion (and frustration) is that window replacement process is not a bid process but a sales process. So far the sales process has been more hassle than helpful.
| Author: | Alan |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Contractor) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 19:30:10 |
Blah blah blah blah.... Gezzzz dude, cry me a river Contractor... If you whine like this during your smoke and mirrors sales presentation no wonder you only sell 5%.
| Author: | Contractor |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Alan) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 21:30:59 |
Alan, if you can't post an intelligent and thoughtful response, please stay off the board. This is a discussion board to educate consumers, not a forum to act like an idiot.
| Author: | Contractor |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Thad) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 21:53:25 |
I do understand your frustration for sure. To be honest, there are many people I see without the spouse present because I realize there is no other way, such as shift workers, etc.
One suggestion would be to have a calm talk with the next salesman who tries to pre-qualify you, and just let him know your wife has given you her blessing to chose the windows without consulting her, and you are ready to make a decision immediatly if you like what you see. This will at least give them the idea that they may not be wasting their time.
On the window buying experience, I guess windows are different than some other projects because they are the commodity, and not solely just the tradesman's skill, like with plumbers and electricians. Plumbers and electricians don't have to convince you their wire or pipes are better than the competitions. You hire them because you hear they are good at what they do, and you like their price. You trust them with the rest because they know best. Can you imagine an electrical demo, with wire, wirenuts, black tape, and outlets spread out all over your kitchen table? LOL, that would be a hilarious demo.
I agree that window sales in many areas are a little too much like buying a car. If more companies were more service oriented, instead of sales oriented, maybe that would change. I personally don't use any of the sales tactics you hear of on this board.
Another idea, you might do better contacting a local building and siding supply house for a referral for an owner-operator window installer. Many are just installers that have started their own business, and have never sold professionally for companies that train to sell Tin Man style.
Good luck on your window purchase Thad, and thanks for the good discussion.
| Author: | Thad |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Contractor) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 23:20:09 |
Contractor, thanks for the suggestions! Perhaps I should be clearer when I schedule the appointment. When I was talking to the Schuco appointment setter, I inferred that I was sole decision maker, but I did not state it implicitly. Maybe, he would be less resistant if I was clearer.
I would love to find an owner operator installer. I came close with a small general contractor last night who also did replacement windows (Gorell, Traco, & Simonton). If his prices are inline, I might just end the process now.
Your example of the electrician sales pitch with the full demo was hilarious. Thanks for the chuckle!!!
| Author: | Window4U (IL) |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Thad) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 23:45:31 |
I am a Schuco dealer, but also carry these other 3 brands. Though I prefer Schuco by far above the rest of these, a Gorell 5300 or a top of the line Simonton would both be good choices, as they are both premium type windows. I would have either in my own home if Schuco did not exist.
On Traco, I only use their commercial aluminum windows for commercial projects, and have not heard especially good things about their vinyl windows, so I cannot recommend them.
| Author: | Thad |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Window4U (IL)) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-04 16:04:54 |
Thanks for the advice ... I will definitely stay away from the Traco vinyl windows. They did seem like more of an industrial window company.
| Author: | Richard Kaller, CCN |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Thad) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-06 03:19:12 |
Thad,
Buying paint, plumbing or electrical is not like buying windows. The price points between these different services are significant.
The larger the price the more risk and the more important it becomes that anyone impacted by the window purchase be involved in the window selection and contractor qualification process.
Our studies show that over 90% of the complaints between contractors and consumers involved the Big 3.
The Big 3 are:
1. Communication problems – If the complete buying party is not involved in the selection process there is a good chance for communication or lack of communication problems impacting the “work in process” or satisfaction with the end product.
2. Unrealized expectations - If the complete buying party is not involved in the selection process there is a good chance for there to be problems with unrealized expectations because all parties did not share their expectations. Windows can be like “wall art” there are a lot of esthetic and performance options to consider. Once you make your decision you live with it, unless you have the money to do it over again if the project does not meet everyone’s expectations.
3. Unforeseen additional cost - If the complete buying party is not involved in the selection process there is a good chance unforeseen additional costs can lead to slow downs in the construction process and/or dissatisfaction with the completed project.
None of the Big 3 are contractor negligence. They are typically consumer negligence for not taking the time to invest intelligently.
Nobody wants a dispute on a project. Due to the thousands of dollars involved, the esthetics involved, and the long term performance of windows it is just too risky to have part of a buying party make the buying decision.
Many window projects complete in one day. What would you feel like if your wife said, “That’s not the window I thought we were getting?” or “I saw a much better looking windows over at Mary’s house.”
The safest bet is to select a contractor with good references in the community that has performed projects just like yours, and then invest the couple hours making sure everyone buyer and seller are on the same sheet of music.
Just my 2 cents…
Richard Kaller
EO
Certified Contractors NetWork
| Author: | Window Man Pa |
| In Reply To: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland (posted by Thad) |
| Subject: | RE: Simonton Installer in Maryland |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-06 15:35:21 |
Nu-View has Schuco they are in Springfield, VA