Please Note! This is our archived old board, it is “read only.”
To visit our current active discussion board click below.
https://www.replacement-windows.com/windowbb/
| Author: | Bungalow Mama |
| Subject: | Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-02 22:42:04 |
OK Guys-
After a couple of weeks reading this site, it's my turn to post (and get myself into trouble!). I'll skip all the part about being utterly confused (though I am!) and cut right to the chase:
I have a 1930's bungalow in the Washington DC (northern Virginia) area that I bought 4 months ago. It's a bit of a fixer-upper, borrowed a bit of extra money for that, but I'm a single mom of a kid with special needs (we got this house to have more room for therapy) so this is not an unlimited budget (and the house needs a new roof and furnace besides).
After reading this site and the horror stories, I went about it a bit differently: rather than looking for certain brands, I concentrated on getting quotes only from the most reputable local installers (as measured by our local "Consumer Reports" rag, called Washington Checkbook). (Before I found this site, I also tried Andersen Renewals, but what a joke -- the guy couldn't even get the number of windows right. Not!)
My only problem: NONE of them use any of the most recommended windows on this site! The brands they prefer to install are:
American Jewel
BF Rich
Vytex
Soft Lite
The largest (who recommended Jewel) does have several other brands that he's happy to sell me (the only mentioned often here is CertainTeed's Bryn Mawr line), but he also bluntly says he doesn't think they're any better -- and when I check the NFRC website he's absolutely right, at least in terms of the efficiency ratings. Aside from the Jewel (and the installer, whose blunt opinions kind of remind me of the experts on this site -- the guy is clearly a "window man," not a salesman), my favorite is the Rich only because it has a simulated divided light that will look closer to my 70-year-old windows and just has a solid feel to it.
Of course after reading this site I also emailed Schuco, but I can find no record of reliability with the BBB (or Checkbook) on their two "local" installers (and one is up in Baltimore).
I have to say that I'm wondering if our "middle" climates like this area fall into a window twilight zone that doesn't generate enormous volume from the bigger companies??? We need a "middle" kind of window (none of these installers see any reason for triple glazing here) that I guess in a way might be kind of boring; but maybe the best local installers have found what seems to work here at a reasoable price (rather than trying to sell us windows we don't need).
So do I take the advice of the locals with a good reputation? Are the windows above just not that well-known nationally because it's a niche market? Or are they crap? Or????
Or should I be taking a chance on installers with "better" products but less of a track record?
And now for getting myself into trouble: I write "boring" above because on this Board, all the debate seems to focus on "macho" windows needed further north, or demanding climates like California. Poor posters from this mid-climate area (I found 'em only by using the Search function and going WAY back in time, searching both on the above brands and by region) end up with short threads only between individual consumers that read like, "Hey, I need to know that too? Can you let me know what you find out?" "Hi! Got an answer yet?" until they peter off into pitiful silence....
"Boring" window areas need advice and champions too! Any experts out there dare to answer?
With tongue more than slightly in cheek :-)--
Bungalow Mama
| Author: | Window4U (IL) |
| In Reply To: | Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by Bungalow Mama) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-02 23:02:23 |
Quote; (none of these installers see any reason for triple glazing here)
I'll respond to the rest of your questions when I get home later, but for now I have a question for you to ask your installers, since all triple pane with Krypton is... is INSULATION.
Ask them, since you live in a "mild" climate, do they also recommend not insulating the attics or walls? And since you have a mild climate, is an energy efficient gas furnace also unnecessary?
It amazes me that professionals that would recommend you put a couple feet of fiberglass in your attic would not recommend you insulate your windows to the highest value possible.
An R-38 in the attic and an R-3 in the glass, does that sound like good sound advice to you?......(just something to get you thinking)...
| Author: | E-z |
| In Reply To: | Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by Bungalow Mama) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 02:30:58 |
Hey Bungalow mama,
I am a california contractor so i have never heard of those brands, that does not mean anything however because they are a lot of small window manufacturers that have good windows not necessary mainstream but maybe good and reliable technology. This is what i would look for in making a decision on windows.
1. Standard glass thickness and low e coatings.
Needless to say the thicker the glass the better the more coatings of low e the better too. Usually 1/8 thick glass is pretty good, lo e tint is great two layers of loe or loe2 even better.
2. Window frames. Ask to see the frames in a corner piece which means a corner sample where you can see the guts of the window, is it multichamber? count them the more they are the stronger the frame.
3. Glazing spacer. Read here at tims page about spacers. Hint: no metal=best less metal=good
How long has the manufacturer has been around? In todays global economy chances are they either merged, sold, or have a parent company that has nothing to do with windows. sorry realisticly unless their past is totally sketchy chances are that by researching them you wil find a parent company. Just read the fine print.
Hope this helps is kinda simple but to the point.
E-z
www.eazywindows.com
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by Bungalow Mama) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 04:03:47 |
Mama, If some of the windows loved here are not in your area. It's no big deal. It doesn't mean it's good or bad. It's tough to survive as EZ pointed out. If a contractor sees an over saturated market he won't invest in it. Also there are probably some contractors near you who don't need to advertise or simply can't afford it. They will always be around if you look. The Certainteed window would be a good choice. If the Schuco salesmen can't make you comfortable then thats they're loss. The window is only as good as it's sales staff. Schuco can sell itself. I don't understand the high pressure tactics sometimes. But this shouldn't stop you moving on. Simonton is another good choice with Gorell and Gilkey. Look them over and compare apples for apples. Windows4U's remark on triple pane is right on the money. It's just sales BS talking the other down. If you can afford triple pane go for it. If not get the best thing you can afford and like. Find the good installer to go with it. Most important feature. Good Luck!!
| Author: | tomf |
| In Reply To: | Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by Bungalow Mama) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 22:34:32 |
Bungalow Mama -- i live in Northern Virginia too and recently got a quote from Schuco. i'm tempted to go with them and the references they gave me have been very positive. i've also been calling contractors from the consumers checkbook list. i've had 4 estimates so far (Certainteed, soft lite, anderson, schuco) and based on what i've read on this site, i'm strongly leaning toward schuco, although it is the most expensive of the vinyl windows i've seen.
| Author: | Investor |
| In Reply To: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by tomf) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-03 23:02:03 |
A larger investment today, can yield a better investment return in time, and in fact, pay for itself yielding pure profit upon resale. I invest in homes on the East coast, maintainence free products and energy efficient upgrades open checkbooks for buyers. It's simple economics.
| Author: | Bungalow Mama |
| In Reply To: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by tomf) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-04 04:17:16 |
Thanks! Is this from NuVue in Chantilly, or the folks in Baltimore (that Annapolis had such difficulty with)?
| Author: | Bungalow Mama |
| In Reply To: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by E-z) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-04 04:26:43 |
Thanks E-z -- simple is good!
To give you an idea, these are Jewel 3000's, low-E and argon, with a U-factor of .28, SHGC of .35 and VT of .53. They're fully-welded, super spacer and with foam-filled frames (can't remember the number of chambers but there were several). These seem to be really good numbers for mid-priced windows, better than the CertainTeed, so it's only the lack of "reputation" that is stopping me (plus I will want to go for a Schuco quote now that another No. Virginian recommends them, just to see.).
Many thanks again!
| Author: | Richard Kaller, CCN |
| In Reply To: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by tomf) |
| Subject: | Question for Tomf |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-04 23:45:07 |
Tomf,
Why are you getting 4 or more prices?
Are you finding incompetent sales representatives that cannot answer your questions?
Has any bidder generated enough of your trust and confidence that you would feel comfortable using them?
Are you looking for lower pricing?
Is it just your style to do a lot of shopping?
Where are you finding all these contractors? What advertising are they using?
Thanks…Richard
| Author: | Eileen Wayback |
| In Reply To: | Question for Tomf (posted by Richard Kaller, CCN) |
| Subject: | RE: Question for Tomf |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-05 03:15:09 |
Hey Richard, This is a Q&A Forum. Not a potential customer hook up spot. If you want to answer questions it's a great idea. If you want leads. Go out and pound the streets like the rest of the Pro's here. I don't see Windows4U, Oberon, EZ or Guy pitching their company products or URL on this site. Why don't you respect the same courtesy to us they do!! It's not right to sit here and prey on unhappy people!!!
| Author: | JJ |
| In Reply To: | Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by Bungalow Mama) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-07 16:54:46 |
I, too, am hunting for windows in no. VA.
It appears that we have talked to the same local firms! Did you get any other feedback?
I am leaning toward the BFRich right now (even though you were the first to mention it on this board...)
| Author: | David |
| In Reply To: | Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? (posted by Bungalow Mama) |
| Subject: | RE: Only "Macho" Windows Need Apply? |
| Posted At: | 2004-09-16 14:25:10 |
Mama,
I am in the Northen VA area near Dulles Airport. I have been investigating replacement windows in the area as well. I think I have come across the same dealer as you have (sells American Jewel and CertainTeed's Bryn Mawr out of Beltsville, MD). This dealer has installed American Jewel in two homes in my neighborhood and both homeowners have been completely satisfied with service, price, and quality. The one women who recommended them showed me a comparison of prices and quality of windows offered by various installers. American Jewel did very well in the comparison.
I was wondering if some of the 'experts' would mind taking a look at the installer's web site and give an opinion on their products.