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Author: | Amy |
Subject: | Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-09 05:48:07 |
My husband and I are in the market to replace our single pane double hung wood windows and so far have met with two companies. One company (Champion) selling vinyl replacement windows and the other selling wood clad inserts(Koeble and Koeble) and new storm windows (Larson Gold Storms). We would appreciate feed back on these two options, the pros and cons.
Author: | durantewindows.com |
In Reply To: | Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by Amy) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-10 05:19:01 |
Vinyl Verses Clad?
I guess it really depends on what you want out of your windows. If having a real wood window that you can paint or stain on the interior is important to you well then decision made. Just be aware of the sacrifices in preformance that you are making. Clad windows all have a inherant weakness and that is where the cladding meets the glass, it is usually clipped over the wood frame and set into a bead of butal sealant. The life of your windows is based on the life of the sealant. Most Clad products only warranty for 10 to 15 years. Air infultration is going to be much higher with wood frame windows as compaired to a quality vinyl window due the ablity to put more barriers of weatherstripping in. From your posting It sounds like one company is going to try to eliminate some of these problems with a storm window. The only remaining qustion is how user friendly do you want your windows, Compaire the easy of tilting in a wood sash verses a vinyl sash and I think you would choose the vinyl. And then there's washing. With storm windows you have to wash 4 sides after you struggle to get wood windows tilted in. verses washing two sides. Oh yea condensation on the inside of storm windows on cold mornings is considered normal.
If you do decide to go vinyl, I would shop around a little
more, Champion makes a pretty solid window but there are better windows and some can be very competitive.
Hope this helps
Jason
Author: | RCasement |
In Reply To: | Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by Amy) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-10 13:03:58 |
Check out the Simonton windows.
These are vinyl premium windows that have the super spacer if ordered, and can be gotten with interior wood grain laminate. We just purchased 23 units from from a building supply co, and saved alot of money. We found a contractor doing jobs in are area that does good wook and hired him.
Author: | Bill D. |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by RCasement) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-10 13:06:51 |
What supply house did you get them? I'd like to check it out.
Author: | Dean S |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by durantewindows.com) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-10 22:32:10 |
Durante,
I have a few problems with your post. I'm going to dispute a few things you say about clad windows and bring up a few things you left out about vinyl.
I sell Marvin windows and agree with you that some cladding systems are pretty poor. However, several companies (ncluding Marvin) have switched to extruded aluminum with weatherstripping, a butyl sealant and a thermal break between the wood and aluminum which lasts much longer. Several companies' windows tilt in very easily too.
You say that air infiltration will be higher with clad windows. Many wood windows have DP ratings of 25-45 for double hungs. While I have read on this board that a vinyl window company (Shuco, I think) has a DP of 60, I have not seen them. In fact no vinyl window I have ever competed against even had a DP rating. Maybe some higher end vinyl windows perform well and have good ratings. Perhaps you can post some numbers. I have heard that AAMA does not give a rating higher than DP30 for windows inserted into existing frames.
I have seen in several warrantees from vinyl companies that the sash are deliberately made too small to allow for expansion and contraction. This cannot be good for preventing air infiltration.
Which leads to my next point. Vinyl (plastic) expands and contracts over time. When it gets extremely hot then extremely cold it doesn't assume it's original shape. There have been improvements in vinyl over the years but the window you buy now will not perform as well over time.
I have read several "lifetime warrantees" from vinyl window companies and am rarely impressed. Only one I've read didn't charge for labor if a part needs to be replaced and they don't limit what they can charge for labor. "Normal weathering" is usually exempted from the warrantee. So, if you have a problem with a part years after the purchase, don't think someone will happily replace it for free. Read the small print very, very carefully.
Author: | Rcasement |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by Bill D.) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-10 23:45:10 |
Mid Am building supply. Reflections 5500 is the casement style. Hope this helps.
Author: | Amy |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by durantewindows.com) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-11 01:55:01 |
Jason,
Your point about the need to clean the storm windows was something I had not even considered. In this house it would be me having to clean of that glass. Thank you!!! More & more vinyl is looking like a best option. We are moving forward with getting bids from other windows brands and companies. Thanks again for your input.
Amy
Author: | Peter L |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by Dean S) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-14 02:41:22 |
Excellent points, Dean. By the way, do you have a DP rating for the Marvin Ultimate wood-clad (double-hung)?
Thanks,
Peter
Author: | Dean S |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by Peter L) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-14 03:37:05 |
Marvin's double hung is a DP40 which means it stands up to winds 50mph with 8 inches of rain per hour without losing air and water seal. I believe it's 126mph without the water.
Author: | bob statford |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by Dean S) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-15 03:59:21 |
I have a problem with your statements about warranty issues on vinyl windows. Did you mention anything about the warranties of the clad (glued together) windows. With out a doubt there has been many improvements to vinyl. Especially vinyl windows with fiberglass reinforcements. Which is what I encourage you to look into, please take time in looking for your company to do the work. That is where most problems seem to appear.
Dean S wrote:
Durante,
I have a few problems with your post. I'm going to dispute a few things you say about clad windows and bring up a few things you left out about vinyl.
I sell Marvin windows and agree with you that some cladding systems are pretty poor. However, several companies (ncluding Marvin) have switched to extruded aluminum with weatherstripping, a butyl sealant and a thermal break between the wood and aluminum which lasts much longer. Several companies' windows tilt in very easily too.
You say that air infiltration will be higher with clad windows. Many wood windows have DP ratings of 25-45 for double hungs. While I have read on this board that a vinyl window company (Shuco, I think) has a DP of 60, I have not seen them. In fact no vinyl window I have ever competed against even had a DP rating. Maybe some higher end vinyl windows perform well and have good ratings. Perhaps you can post some numbers. I have heard that AAMA does not give a rating higher than DP30 for windows inserted into existing frames.
I have seen in several warrantees from vinyl companies that the sash are deliberately made too small to allow for expansion and contraction. This cannot be good for preventing air infiltration.
Which leads to my next point. Vinyl (plastic) expands and contracts over time. When it gets extremely hot then extremely cold it doesn't assume it's original shape. There have been improvements in vinyl over the years but the window you buy now will not perform as well over time.
I have read several "lifetime warrantees" from vinyl window companies and am rarely impressed. Only one I've read didn't charge for labor if a part needs to be replaced and they don't limit what they can charge for labor. "Normal weathering" is usually exempted from the warrantee. So, if you have a problem with a part years after the purchase, don't think someone will happily replace it for free. Read the small print very, very carefully.
Author: | JD@DWS |
In Reply To: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? (posted by Dean S) |
Subject: | RE: Wood clad inserts vs Vinyl replacements? |
Posted At: | 2004-09-16 06:42:50 |
Dean
Thanks for your input, I do agree that there are some decent wood comanies out there, And I also agree that there are alot crappy vinyl companies out there. While Im not here to bash other brands, I had to reply to your post. I sell Great Lakes Uniframe series windows, We offer a DP 50 window with triple pane glass. All parts including weather stipping are covered for life. In terms of replacement I can usually offer my windows that are custom made to fit existing openings at a much more realistic price while providing my customer with a superior product in terms of performance. It sounds like your been subject to run of the mill builder grade vinyl windows.