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| Author: | MV Bill |
| Subject: | Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-02 15:14:55 |
I am in the middle of a large nail-on install (almost 40 windows, Milgard Ultra). The windows, themselves seem to have been installed correctly based on what I've read on these boards, BUT:
after putting down flashing paper, putting down caulking of some kind, screwing the windows into place, and flashing over the nailing fin, there seems to be a problem with the last step: replacing the wood trim around the windows.
When the installers nailed the new wood trim in place, some of the nails have gone in very close to the window, such that some of the nails must have gone through the nailing fin. This seems like it would break the water barrier they had carefully built up when they put the window in.
Is this a problem, and if so, what's the best way to fix it where it's already happened?
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by MV Bill) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-02 15:24:19 |
Usually before we install any trim or siding pieces. We tape the windows around each side with a rubber membrane tape such as Protecto Wrap. This covers the nail fin and seam to the wall board. When you put a nail through this. It adheres to the fastener and seals back up. You can usually find it at any DIY store. I wouldn't go any smaller than four inces wide. Good Luck!!!
| Author: | Shocker |
| In Reply To: | Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by MV Bill) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-02 15:51:12 |
I'm not a professional but I don't think this is a problem at all. I just finished self-installing a Milgard WoodClad a few days ago. Your nail fin was caulked and flashed too? No, it's not going to leak!, period, not from that anyway. There wasn't room to flash my side fins, so they are only caulked, I shot brads through the cedar trim piece and into the nail flange, and it's not going to leak either. If water actually seeped past nails (painted too, I'm sure)...think of all the problems you'd have all over your house.
They are very nice windows, aren't they?
| Author: | Guy |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by Shocker) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-02 18:02:49 |
Shocker is a gambling man! He's usually correct in his assumption that water won't get in there. On the other hand water only needs a pin hole to start it's damage. I've seen it a thousand times. Ounce it starts you'll never know until it's to late. If you live in a dry and warm climate you may be ok. If you live in a climate with snow and rain I'd strongly recommend taping off the windows. In most northern climates it's code to tape your windows. So check with your local building inspector before you roll the dice!!
| Author: | george |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-03 00:57:12 |
I have been talking to an installer of wood windows (Marvin, Pella), who has a very good reputation in the area, and he says that they don't even use the nailing fin on tear-out replacements. He says that they just rip off the nailing fin and throw it away because it is "pretty much useless...do you really want your window to depend on a thin vinyl strip to hold it in place?" Instead, he says they nail directly through the window frame to secure the window against the external house wall.
Does this make sense to you?
Thanks
| Author: | chuck persse |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by george) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-03 01:54:12 |
How does this guy install these finned windows without the fin? I just bought aluminum clad Weathershields without fins thinking I was getting a brickmold just like the old wooden ones I'm tearing out. So now I don't know how I'm going to install them (I'm a DIY).
| Author: | Shocker |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-03 02:37:01 |
Pulllllease....gamble? jeesshh....lets not be a Chicken Little here....... this is a 3 window bay and the window basically fills the bay section...to tape the sides I would have used a 1.4" piece of tape...you see the problem of course....
So, I caulked the nail fin, and also taped the header flange, since there was plenty of room above to use a full 4" piece of tape. But for kicks, let's see what would have to happen for the sides to leak.
1) Water has to get past the trim paint, past the brad in and through the 1" cedar trim piece (thats also caulked), then, it has to proceed past the nail fin, past the caulk on the nail fin..... It ain't happening and thats no gamble! For gosh sakes, you've got a slotted nail hole in the fin and the nail only fills a portion of it.....lets worry about that (not).
| Author: | Shocker |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by Guy) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-03 02:51:14 |
The brads were shot when the caulk on the nail flange was still wet, seems to me, if caulk can seal around the nail in the nail flange, it can handle that little brad too.
Incidently, Protecto Wrap is what I used on the header flange...you know on the instructions it says "there should be no caulk used near Quik-Fix window sealing tape." I think as long as the two are not in contact with each other, you are probably all right, at least that's my take on it.....
| Author: | E-z |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by george) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-03 21:19:18 |
George he may have a good reputation but he sucks. The nail on fin is not only to attach your window but also to flash it correctly. I agree with him in the sense that sometimes the nail on fin dont seem to hold a window in place and i do screw tru the frame when possible. However you MUST leave that nail on fin to flash it correctly and prevent future water damage. I would ask him if Marvin or Pella know his installation methods and also beware that ripping the nail on fin will absolutely void your warranty.
E-z
www.eazywindows.com
| Author: | george |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by E-z) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-04 01:21:30 |
Why would you need to keep the nailing fin on, in order to flash the window properly?
Thanks,
George
| Author: | On Looker |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by Shocker) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-04 13:44:00 |
Shocker, Your an idiot. Leave the installation to the Pro's on this board. Your just a handyman obviously. So if you don't know the codes or proper methods used to install. Don't offer an opinion. It's dorks like you who steer people in the wrong direction.
| Author: | Shocker |
| In Reply To: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress (posted by On Looker) |
| Subject: | RE: Installation mistakes(?) in progress |
| Posted At: | 2004-10-04 15:51:49 |
I identified myself as not an expert. Window flashing is not required by code in this area, nor is building wrap, in fact, you never see either one in new construction here. Thanks for the intellectual and highly diplomatic response though! Thankfully, you are not typical of the rest of the "pro's" on this site. Sorry for adding my 2 cents on this subject.