Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

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WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#16 Post by WindowsDirectCinci » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:10 pm

The sunrise full frame system in the video is the window with built on exterior Brickmould and new premade interior casing from sunrise. The company quoting full frame already stated they’re not removing the old casing and installing new. The Brickmould option is a very nice touch and looks great but not necessary to do a full frame. Just from experience installing the window with the exterior Brickmould attached looks beautiful but is a Pia when not replacing the interior casing. The rise of the sill is different from manufacturer to manufacturer so that usually determines the placement of the interior casing. When not changing that out you have to make sure your window fits the interior casing as well as the exterior brick opening. Often time they do not align. You almost always have to install new interior jamb extensions and make the windows fit the interior casing 1st then the brick opening second(but it has to fit, and usually smaller) if they’re leaving the interior casing then I’d recommend not using the built on Brickmould unless you can verify they’ve done that procedure before as it takes a lot of reverse engineering to get proper measurements. If they’re not using the exterior Brickmould then this would be the same full tearout method you can get with any window although some dealers may not do full frame jobs. They take longer and is more work, a lot of contractors want to get in and out.

I stand behind the fact that full frame is the absolute best way to replace windows but most of our customers opt for inserts. There is nothing wrong with inserts it’s just not as invasive and may not expose all of the issues.

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toddinmn
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#17 Post by toddinmn » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:14 pm

I think some, at least me would not say that a full frame replacement is factually superior. For one we got 2 types of “full” frame replacement, with and without nail fin. I think a nail fin is obviously superior in new construction, when siding is being removed or when it can be fully integrated in the existing weather barrier system. Finned installation can be difficult in such cases such as brick, stucco, windows with no exterior trim and in cases where the interior trim would not be cost effective to replace or difficult to duplicate. I don’t think a full frame replacement without a nailing fin would be superior to an insert install except for the loss of viewable glass with an insert.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#18 Post by TheWindowNerd » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:31 am

Todd you are sounding objective.
Insulation of a full frame with or without fins is superior to inserts. You get to insulated the the RO to the window.
Then there is the new interior casing.

Listen all said I am happy when the HO get the correct job for them and they are served well and pleased with the final results.

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toddinmn
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#19 Post by toddinmn » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:21 pm

No reason you can’t insulate the rough opening with an insert. New casing can be good but is not idea with many 19th and early 20th century homes.

Delaware Mike
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#20 Post by Delaware Mike » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:44 pm

Flanged full frame replacements will typically have a deeper jamb depth for the hanging of mini blinds off/in the head jamb than with filling a wood window pocket with an insert/replacement window. I like blinds hanging there verses on the face of the casings when it make sense.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#21 Post by HomeSealed » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:25 am

There may be some hairs being split here IMO.
1) I think that all would agree that when possible, a full frame with fin integrated with existing wrb is going to offer the most comprehensive installation, and including new interior woodwork, new exterior flashing and trim detail. Sometimes that is not possible as Todd alluded to, and even when possible, the substantial added cost comes into play for many people as well which is fair and advisable to weigh.

2) A full frame without fin can be very valid. I think that the delta of benefit from insert to that type shrinks substantially. As Todd alluded to, the glass difference may be the main benefit there. Its true that most inserts are not checking insulation in the RO, however that is not often a big issue. Sealing that area and replacing casing can still be done with an insert installation and for less $$$, thereby canceling out those benefits if desired. I would add that Window Nerd's statement about being done "with proper care" is absolutely key. I would trust this installation from a true craftsman such as him, but far too often a fin-less full frame is dependent on nothing but caulk which will fail after a few years.

3) The system shown in that video is nice from a dealer and installer perspective, but for the reasons explained above, it doesn't offer anything unique or beneficial to a homeowner that cannot be achieved or bested via other methods. It also vastly overstates the potential for "hidden damage", insects, etc. Again, nothing necessarily wrong with it, but there's no great or exclusive benefit to you as a homeowner either.
www.homesealed.com

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toddinmn
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#22 Post by toddinmn » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:14 pm

Well said Homesealed.
I would also double down on the finless installation, rarely have I seen contractors address that type of opening properly.

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toddinmn
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#23 Post by toddinmn » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:23 pm

toddinmn wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:14 pm
Well said Homesealed.
I would also double down on the finless installation, rarely have I seen contractors address that type of opening properly. I would also keep in mind when replacing the interior trim in many of these old houses there are going to be extra fees for containing lead based paint and sometimes that plaster breaks off a little more than we like.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#24 Post by TheWindowNerd » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:06 pm

Yes we are a rarity.
I believe the OP stated the whole exterior is brick. I have not seen a picture of the exterior to tell if the originals are brick molding to the brick or window frame to the brick. As y'all know that can make for a difference with fin or no fin.
As DEMike alludes on a full frame fin or no fin in a 4 9/16 wall thickness you will end up with 2 5/8" jamb extension that accommodates 2" blinds or shades and typically nets a 4 1/2" deep sill.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#25 Post by TheWindowNerd » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:08 pm

By the way we are not the only rarity. I believe each of you on this thread is. You care and you do it right.
Thank you to each of you for your lifting the bar, hat off to you.

theWindowNerd.com

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toddinmn
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#26 Post by toddinmn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:28 pm

A typical finned window on a 4 9/16 would yield the 2 5/8 . For me a full framed finless window would yield less since I prefer the window not to protrude further than the sheathing. Sometimes I will pull the window all the way in flush to the interior and anywhere in between depending on the situation. Asking where the window is going to placed in the opening would be a great question for a homeowner to ask since it seems. Some of us would do it differently.

Tadcrazio
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Re: Atlanta Replacement Windows - Okna vs Sunrise and Brickmould Questions

#27 Post by Tadcrazio » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:56 am

ATL window seeker, I'd like to know who chose and what you ended up with. I'm in the Atlanta area and am looking at all my options.

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