Would like your opinion on this quote

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Stiletto
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Would like your opinion on this quote

#1 Post by Stiletto » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:07 pm

Hello all! I’d like to get some opinions on the following quote for Sunrise Restorations windows with Omega-12 low-e glass, no window grids or screens, full-frame installation in a brick veneer home (built in the Southern US in 1991). We’re talking about 18 windows, which include a 48x74 bay picture window (tempered glass), an entryway palladium round top 36x72 window, 2 10x56 vertical transoms, 9 double hung windows, and the following horizontal transoms: 1 48x10, 2 28x10, 2 24x10.

Dealer is a very reputable, no pressure company with excellent reputation for doing the job right and standing behind their work with a lifetime installation and labor warranty, including any work that might be required in support of the manufacturer’s warranty. Salesperson has been in the business for decades, is extremely knowledgeable, able to explain in precise detail exactly what will be done. Knows all of his product lines extremely well. Price I was quoted is $18,500. If I were to choose a pocket installation instead, price is $13,200.

Appreciate any thoughts you might care to share, this is a big investment for us at the moment.
Thanks, Tony.
Last edited by Stiletto on Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#2 Post by HomeSealed » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:12 pm

Tony, if the $18k were the number for pockets on this window from a reputable company, I'd say that you have a reasonable quote. The fact that you are getting full frames at that price I'd say is a heck of a deal, as would be the pockets at $13k. I wouldn't expect pricing like that once the health crisis has passed, if you are in a position to pull the trigger and this is a good company, it sounds like a really good deal.
www.homesealed.com

Stiletto
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#3 Post by Stiletto » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:26 pm

HomeSealed wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:12 pm
Tony, if the $18k were the number for pockets on this window from a reputable company, I'd say that you have a reasonable quote. The fact that you are getting full frames at that price I'd say is a heck of a deal, as would be the pockets at $13k. I wouldn't expect pricing like that once the health crisis has passed, if you are in a position to pull the trigger and this is a good company, it sounds like a really good deal.
Thanks so much with getting back to me with this information, its a tremendous help. While I understood that a full-frame install will require more labor and materials than a pocket install, trying to gauge how much more (in $$) it should be over a pocket install has been a frustrating exercise for laymen such as myself. I know that this installer uses the Sunrise full-frame installation system, which comes with a pre-attached brickmold, which is supposed to help expedite the installation.
I've looked through countless websites and saw it stated that a full-frame install should be about 20 - 25% more than a pocket insert, and was concerned I was being overcharged since the difference between the pocket and the full-frame is significantly higher than that in my case. However, hearing back from experienced pros such as yourself that this is, in fact, in line with expectations and perhaps even exceeds expectations provides a much needed reassurance than I am not being taken for a ride. I also received quotes from another well-regarded company this evening for pocket installation of Soft-Lite Elements and Okna 800 series windows, which fall in-line with the Sunrise Restorations quote.
Thank you again for your advice and for responding back so quickly!
Last edited by Stiletto on Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#4 Post by Windows on Washington » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:39 am

All great choices there.

The full frame option, and what it should cost as a percentage over inserts, will vary from company to company. The reality is that some companies tend towards full tears whereas some companies prefer inserts. If the frames are mostly okay, I know that my crews prefer inserts around these parts. Most customers prefer not having to paint trim as well. In our case, the premium for full tear over insert is in that 20-30% range, but keep in mind that stacked trim or thicker trim is going to cost you more.

You have a great selections list up there so its like between choosing between an All Star line up.

Stiletto
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#5 Post by Stiletto » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:48 am

Windows on Washington wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:39 am
All great choices there.

The full frame option, and what it should cost as a percentage over inserts, will vary from company to company. The reality is that some companies tend towards full tears whereas some companies prefer inserts. If the frames are mostly okay, I know that my crews prefer inserts around these parts. Most customers prefer not having to paint trim as well. In our case, the premium for full tear over insert is in that 20-30% range, but keep in mind that stacked trim or thicker trim is going to cost you more.

You have a great selections list up there so its like between choosing between an All Star line up.
Thanks for your response WoW! This particular installer presented both the full frame and pocket options without any pressure to choose one over the other. When asked, the rep I am working with stated he prefers the full frame approach and had his own home fitted this way with the Restorations windows eight years ago. With regard to the trim, this installer stated that they will actually re-use my existing trim, which they stated will be removed with extreme care and remounted such that there will be little obvious evidence that it was ever removed. I was a bit suspicious about this, but given the fact that they have been in business for decades, are highly recommended with excellent reviews, and are authorized dealers for the flagship models of each line they carry, I figured they of course know more about this than I do.

So one thing I was a bit concerned about was the fact that the Sunrise full frame installation system appears to use a replacement window without a nailing fin (it appears to be fastened in with screws from the exterior through the factory pre-attached brickmold, here is a video for anyone unfamiliar with it https://youtu.be/gdJrnD_jK-E). Although the Sunrise system appears to save time and result in an attractive finished product, I was under the impression that when performing a full frame install without a nailing fin, it would be difficult to achieve a good weather-tight seal to my homes existing weather-resistant barrier, thereby negating many of the benefits of a full-frame installation (other than the ability to visually inspect the rough opening for any rot). If this type of "full-frame" install really isn't much better than a pocket install, I certainly wouldn't want to pay a premium for it.

OK, so am I over-thinking this and being over-concerned here? I plan to be in the home for perhaps another 20 years, the good Lord willing of course, and I certainly do not want to experience water infiltration issues. The home was originally equipped with builder-grade single pane wooden windows, and this would be its first window replacement in 30 years. Once again, the installation company has got a great reputation and has been performing window and door installations in my area for a long time, I doubt they got there by performing shoddy full frame installs that leak, so I am going to bring up my concerns with my rep. But I would greatly appreciate the opinion of the pros here! Thank you!

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#6 Post by WindowsDirectCinci » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:36 am

You can get the full frame Brickmould option with a nailing function also. But if you have brick home it wouldn’t really be feasible to install that way. That built in Brickmould option is more cost than a standard full frame install because of the product cost difference. It’s not only more time and labor but product cost could easily be 25-45% more as well.

Stiletto
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#7 Post by Stiletto » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:52 am

WindowsDirectCinci wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:36 am
You can get the full frame Brickmould option with a nailing function also. But if you have brick home it wouldn’t really be feasible to install that way. That built in Brickmould option is more cost than a standard full frame install because of the product cost difference. It’s not only more time and labor but product cost could easily be 25-45% more as well.
Ah, thank you WindowsDirectCinci for pointing that out, it makes sense. I had not factored in that the Sunrise full frame kit probably cost the installer more to begin with.
Based on your answer, you sound like you might be a Sunrise dealer, which is great. Perhaps you would happen to know if the Sunrise full-frame installation system includes the interior casing as well as the exterior brickmould when ordered, or is the interior casing an extra cost option? I saw the Sunrise video on Youtube that illustrates how the system is installed, and it led me to believe both were included in the package. The reason I ask is that the company I am working with stated that they will remove but reuse my existing casing (they guarantee that it will look as if it was never removed) but install a new stool, and made no mention of any factory-provided interior casing or apron.
Your guidance is much appreciated.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#8 Post by WindowsDirectCinci » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:27 pm

The interior trim package would be an additional add on. We would normally install new casing at the job for cost reasons. The prefinished interior casing is super nice with absolutely perfect miters but can be expensive.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#9 Post by TheWindowNerd » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:42 am

When we offer a pocket compared to a full frame the delta is normally $250. per window.
That include primed only 3/4" stool with routed returns. 2.25 or 3.25 standard casing.
So the delta you were quoted looks good to me.

theWindowNerd.com

Stiletto
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Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#10 Post by Stiletto » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:11 pm

WindowsDirectCinci wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:27 pm
The interior trim package would be an additional add on. We would normally install new casing at the job for cost reasons. The prefinished interior casing is super nice with absolutely perfect miters but can be expensive.
Thanks for that response, exactly what I wanted to know. I'm hoping you can clarify another source of confusion for me wrt Restorations.
I understand that Sunrise uses reinforced glass fibers in the Restorations windows, sounds like a good idea given the heat we experience here during the summer. The marketing brochure I received from my dealer does not discuss exactly where this reinforcement is actually used. Could you clarify for me which Restorations windows (like DHs, casements, fixed, etc) they use it in and where in those windows it is used? In scouring the net this weekend, I've read some people say it is used only in the meeting rail of the lower DH sash, and others say it is used in both the rails and stiles of each sash. What's the truth?
Last edited by Stiletto on Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stiletto
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:56 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Would like your opinion on this quote

#11 Post by Stiletto » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:12 pm

TheWindowNerd wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:42 am
When we offer a pocket compared to a full frame the delta is normally $250. per window.
That include primed only 3/4" stool with routed returns. 2.25 or 3.25 standard casing.
So the delta you were quoted looks good to me.

theWindowNerd.com
Thank you sir, that will be very helpful to me in coming to a decision on this installation company.

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