Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

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Stiletto
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Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#1 Post by Stiletto » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:43 am

I have a home office on the front side of my home, which has a walk-in bay window with two 24x74 DH with a 24x10 transom window above each, and one 48x74 picture window with a 48x10 transom above it. All of these will be replaced with Sunrise Restorations. I am planning on going with a double pane IG with argon fill and Sunrise's Omega-12 (Cardinal LowE-366) glass package. Since the office faces the street, I am considering the Sunrise NRG glass for the DHs and the picture window (the dealer tells me that NRG is not available for the transoms). I've heard it delivers a noticeable reduction in sound for a reasonable price, my layman's understanding is that it achieves the sound reduction by using glass panes of different thicknesses (dissimilar glass). I may also opt for NRG for two 28x54 DHs in the second floor master bedroom as well, which also are front facing.

My question is whether NRG glass installed in the picture window and the DHs will appear noticeably different (darker color, etc) to an observer at the curb in comparison to other front-side windows (like the transoms and non-NRG DHs) that also are front-facing? My dealer believes this will be an issue. Based on my understanding of the use of a thicker glass pane, I'm thinking the NRG may appear a bit darker than non-NRG.
I like the thought of additional sound reduction, but I don't want to create a checkerboard effect that might hinder resale down the line. Are there any disadvantages to adding NRG that I should also be aware of?

If anyone here that deals with Sunrise (and may have already "crossed this bridge") cares to share their thoughts on topic, it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all in advance!
Last edited by Stiletto on Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#2 Post by Windows on Washington » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:16 am

Are the other windows clear glass? If so, yes. You will notice a difference. Where is the home located?

Stiletto
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#3 Post by Stiletto » Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:18 pm

Windows on Washington wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:16 am
Are the other windows clear glass? If so, yes. You will notice a difference. Where is the home located?
Thanks for replying, WoW. No, none of the windows will be clear glass, and this is in the Atlanta, GA metro area. All the windows being discussed have a southeast exposure with full sun for at least 50% of the day. All of them are being will be Sunrise Restorations windows with the Omega-12 (Cardinal LowE-366) package (VT=0.49). Its just that for extra noise reduction, I would consider including the NRG option for the office and master bedroom windows. The dealer tells me that the NRG option may not be available for the three transom windows (but these would still be Omega-12). I don't see any mention of the NRG option affecting the VT rating in the Sunrise documentation.
So to clarify, my question is would there be a visual difference between Sunrise Restorations double-pane Omega-12 windows that include the NRG option, and Sunrise Restorations double-pane Omega-12 windows that do not include the NRG option. I may have to manually look through all the Sunrise Restorations windows in the NFRC database and see if I can spot those with glass panes of different thicknesses, and look at the VT ratings!
I apologize for the confusion!

DFW Gal
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#4 Post by DFW Gal » Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:04 pm

I have a recent thread on Which replacement windows for North Texas?
And also have posts in another posters gitesh72, i think? Plus one entire posters thread seems to be gone where I wrote detailed info.

I'm going with Sunrise Vanguard at $21K. I could not go w $14K Don Young aluminum bc I asked my City and they said no as way off code requirements. I'm doing a completer exterior reno and I'd get caught from tattling neighbors or w all the other permit inspections.

The Sunrise Restoration were unreasonably pricey at $59K.
Restoration is only available at one area dealer and they only sell that window.

Only differences I found are that:
The tilt in lower window mechanism/lock was different. I liked both.
The Restoration had both vertical and horizontal sash reinforcement vs Sunrise had horizontal sash only.

But know that the expert here, Randy, said in a 2018 post that there is no sash reinforcement in Sunrise Vanguard single hungs and he may be right!
I also see vertical sash reinforcement as an add on option on my Installer's contract sheet. Sunrise Corporate confirmed vertical sash reinforcement option is available so IDK...

ALL my single hungs, picture and transom windows come w NRG. ALL do. And NO upcharge for any of them.
Surprised your dealer says no NRG in picture and transom.

Also surprised at the .49 VT. That means Visible Light transmission is reduced to only 49% of light getting in.
Clear glass, which I currently have, I'm told allows 80% of light in, so for me I worry I'll get too dark w the 366 which I thought means 66% of the light gets in, so a reduction of 14%.
A .49 VT, for me would be way to dark.

So this drives most crazy when I say this but its true -
be aware of how green the 366 are on the outside! Very green, look contemporary.
And forever changes your interior decorating.
I hired a exterior curb appeal and color consultant and she was right to point this out.
I went in several neighbors homes and she's right.
The 180 and 272 Low E are less green and less darkening.

I'm not going all w LowE 366. I'm going w the lowest LowE 180 in some rooms already in dark shade.
Some rooms will get LowE 272.
I'm matching the same LowE windows where needed for exterior compatibility.

Stiletto
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#5 Post by Stiletto » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:41 pm

DFW Gal, wow $59k that is an incredible $38k price difference between the Vanguard and the Restorations! No one offers Vanguard in my market, so it is not an option for me. And there is only one Restorations dealer here. However, they offer Restorations at a very competitive price to other high-end vinyl windows like the Soft-Lite Elements, Imperial LS and Okna Enviro-Star (800).

The sales rep wasn't absolutely positive on NRG not being available in the transom windows, he seemed to think that was the case but is verifying it. The picture window was not an issue. NRG definitely is not included as a standard feature on the Restorations windows in this market, but it does cost significantly less than laminated glass.
That VT rating I stated of 0.49 is for the window as a whole, and is not for the lowE-366 glass alone. I found many Sunrise, Verde, Vanguard and Restorations windows with LowE-366 in the NFRC database that have NFRC VT ratings of 0.49 .
My understanding is that the VT rating that comes from the NFRC and it is going to be lower than the LowE coating manufacturer's claim (e.g., the "66%" from LowE-366). The NFRC's VT is a whole window rating and includes the impact of the frame area. Since the frame does not transmit any light, it makes sense to me that the VT may be lower than expected. While VT theoretically varies between 0 and 1, when I peruse through the VT values in the NFRC database, I find that most values among double- and triple-pane windows are between 0.30 and 0.70.
So, for example, a clear glass Sunrise Vanguard window using Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation/Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation, Fill 1: AIR (100), CL, No Grid has a VT rating from the NFRC of 0.63, considerably less than the rating for clear glass alone that you mentioned of 80%. Similarly the NFRC rates a Vanguard window using Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation/Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation, Fill 1: AIR (100), LowE-180, CL, No Grid at 0.60 (much lower than LowE-180 alone). Another Vanguard window using Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation/Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation, Fill 1: AIR (100), LowE-270, CL, No Grid come in at 0.53 (a lot less than 70% for LowE-270). Same type of Vanguard window using Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation/Vinyl w/ foam-filled insulation, Fill 1: AIR (100), LowE-366, CL, No Grid is 0.49.

It is especially interesting to note that, when the VT of the entire Vanguard window is taken into account, the LowE-366 only results in an NFRC VT of 14% less than clear glass used in a similar Vanguard window! LowE-270 would be 10% less and LowE-180 would be about 3% less.

The vast majority of my electric and gas bill down here goes toward electricity to cool my home in the summer months. While I have not made a commitment just yet, that SHGC of 0.21 on the LowE-366 versus 0.28 for LowE-270 and 0.49 for LowE-180 is why I thought it would be perfect for the hot Georgia summers down here. But your post intrigues me and I am going to research just how bad that greenish tint might be before I place my order for the windows.

Thanks for pointing this out to me, DFW Gal! :)
Last edited by Stiletto on Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#6 Post by WindowsDirectCinci » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:00 pm

There is no visible difference between the NRG IGU vs the normal IGU. The difference doesn't have to due with the low e coating but the nominal thickness of the glass on th4e outer pane. We mix and match NRG and NRG all the time.

Stiletto
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:56 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#7 Post by Stiletto » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:06 pm

WindowsDirectCinci wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:00 pm
There is no visible difference between the NRG IGU vs the normal IGU. The difference doesn't have to due with the low e coating but the nominal thickness of the glass on th4e outer pane. We mix and match NRG and NRG all the time.
Thanks WindowDirectCinci, I appreciate you chiming in with your NRG experience! That is good news.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#8 Post by WindowsDirectCinci » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:06 pm

Dfw gal. You are quoting the vt rating of the glass only. Once put into a window then there will be less light coming in when accounting for frame size, grids or sdls, even the screen options. I would always only look at rating of the entire window and not glass rating as you could be seriously misled, intentional or not. The only way to get a true comparison from product to product is whole window values.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#9 Post by WindowsDirectCinci » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:07 pm

Stiletto wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:06 pm
WindowsDirectCinci wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:00 pm
There is no visible difference between the NRG IGU vs the normal IGU. The difference doesn't have to due with the low e coating but the nominal thickness of the glass on th4e outer pane. We mix and match NRG and NRG all the time.
Thanks WindowDirectCinci, I appreciate you chiming in with your NRG experience! That is good news.
NP and it works rally well. If you have a noise pollution issue you'll notice the difference for sure. And for the cost of it you can't go wrong

DFW Gal
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Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#10 Post by DFW Gal » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:31 pm

Shout out to all. Thanks much!

1) Yes, yes, I was wrong on the VT !  
I forgot that the glass VT is not the full window VT.

2) On the greenish looking glass, I asked my Exterior Designer/Colorist if the green glass would have an effect. The response:

"Regarding your green tinted windows, with that strong a colour, they will need to be incorporated in your colour scheme forever, inside and out.  They most definitely affect the colour inside, it is not an illusion.

Please confirm you are definitely using them so we are sure the advice you are given for the rest of your exterior is applicable. We won't opine on interior colours until after installation when we can then paint sample colours to see how they look with the new glass."

b) Check out HOUZZ and other sites. Goggle Low E green glass tint look. Controversial as some posters say no room darkening / no greenish cast and others were so shocked and disappointed after install!!

Keep in mind that we often don't know the posters location and their exact glass package. Geographic location makes a difference.
And if they state location, for ex, Canada or the northeast, they have a very different appropriate glass than we do in the south.
They want the heat gain to come in bc its cold in the winter. And we in the south, want to keep the heat gain out.

c) Drive around as well. See if you like them. I was surprised at how many replacement windows have the green look.

3) I read your 3rd to last paragraph with interest!  I was surprised at the low numerical light difference between the different LowE choices. 180, 272, 366.

I do know that my colorist had me obtain the the 3 different glass choices in frames, set against white poster boards outside and inside. I took pics so I could evaluate later. The white poster board behind the window frames show a big difference, to my eye, especially 180 vs 366 as I see greener and darker!!

But not all do. Many are so glad to get their electric bill down they adjust well. My electric bill is so small so not a big motivation for me.

The green and room darkening is big deal for some tho, especially with vision loss or in an already dark/shaded house.
Best to all!

Stiletto
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:56 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Do Sunrise NRG IGUs appear visually different from non-NRG?

#11 Post by Stiletto » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:24 pm

Just an update for anyone interested: I spent a lot of time the past couple of days checking out actual installations of Sunrise Omega-12 LowE-366, and I am comfortable with it. Speaking only for myself, the issue of the "greenish tinge" and the overall VT of 0.49 on the Restorations double-hung is worth it considering its performance benefits in my area of the country. Of course, your particular opinion may be different, thus I would encourage anyone to check it out before inking a purchase agreement.

With regard to the NRG noise abatement package, it is indeed available on the transom windows. The Sunrise Omega-12 LowE-366 with NRG appears only very slightly darker than non-NRG Sunrise Omega-12. I think I will move forward with using NRG for the six windows in my office walk-in bay, where I am sure the added reduction in outdoor sound will be well worth the cost (compared to other options).

Thanks again to all for providing their input!

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