Casement Quotes/Advice

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apmech46166
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Casement Quotes/Advice

#1 Post by apmech46166 »

Hi and thanks for all your contributions to this forum. I have learned a lot in my research here. I have a few quotes to consider. We live in the Indianapolis, IN area and have 11 openings: 2 triples, 4 doubles, and 5 singles. 2 of the singles and 1 of the doubles have arched windows above. All quotes are for full frame casement replacements and the arch windows being replaced as well. Sill replacement is included also as 10 of 11 openings have at least lower sash, frame, and sill rot.

Pella Lifestyle series Casement/Pella Install: wood clad, color matching inside and out, including grids ($2000 for grids included in total shown)
($6500 installation included in total shown)
$37,100

Alside Casement/Contractor install: I was told Alside only offers one vinyl option in casement
(installation cost was not itemized, assuming grids included)
$33,500

Apex Insignia Casement/Apex Install: vinyl, color matched inside and out.
(without grids)
$30,902
(with grids)
$33,495

OKNA Casement/Mr. Window Install
*Waiting on call back for consult*

I found this forum after I had obtained the 1st three quotes unfortunately, or I would have pursued different manufacturers by now.

Pella is not reviewed well here and the cost is far more than I could've imagined. Alside is not reviewed well here and the contractor install is a bit worrisome since I've never used this contractor before. Apex has actually impressed me so far with their communication, organization and warranty. They did not really get "pitchy" at all, did not give me any pressure or pull the "model or promo" home discount on me. A coworker has had Apex DH's installed for 15 years and has had a couple issues that they handled without complaint...one being accidental glass breakage that was covered 7 years after install. I was provided contact info for a few Apex customers and talked to them about their experiences and of course they were positive, but also sounded genuine. The saleslady really talked up their install crew touting 7 years experience required and multiple certifications, for what that's worth. Also, their install warranty goes hand in hand with the manufacturer warranty from what they've said, so there should be no finger pointing if an issue arises. Honestly, they are my top choice for now but I'm eagerly awaiting feedback on Mr. Windows install quality and their quote sometime this week.

Can anyone comment on the quality of Mr. Window installs and the integrity of the company as a whole?

Any feedback is welcome on the info I've provided. Let me also know how these quotes compare. If there are any other quality window dealers and installers in my area, please provide info about that as well. We plan to be in this home for the long haul, so quality/longevity of window and install is important.

Thanks

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HomeSealed
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#2 Post by HomeSealed »

The Apex window is also Alside. They just relabel it. They were recently purchased (Apex) by Great Day improvements which also owns Stanek and a few other brands. Not sure if that will be a positive or negative thing, but its a change in ownership nonetheless.

As far as Mr. Window, I met the owner once and he seemed nice. Can't say much other than that, except that they do offer a great window. While nothing is guaranteed, product choice does say something about a company. It would be easy for everyone to slap their own name on a low cost window and charge a high price, whereas a guy that pays more for a premium product generally does so because he cares about his craft.

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TheWindowNerd
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Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex

Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#3 Post by TheWindowNerd »

The Pella price is awsome and is a totally different product. Clad wood plus factory prefinish of the interior and the trim.
I like Pella casements, just hope they do not rot. About 5 years ago Pella changed their warranty to lifetime on the product, on the install It will only be two years.

In vinyl I would suggest Okna, Vytex, Sunrise if you can get them sometime in this decade.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#4 Post by HomeSealed »

#41 Post by TheWindowNerd » Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:46 am

Heaven forbid we use the common sense literal approach. Lets just stick with puffery.
theWindowNerd




hmmm.... I suppose calling Pella's "lifetime warranty" puffery would be too kind. I believe it covers non-laminated glass and the exterior paint finish falling off. Everything else is far less (2-10 years) or not covered at all.

There's a lot of information manipulation in this industry, but Pella's "lifetime" warranty is one of the most egregious cases IMO.

apmech46166
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#5 Post by apmech46166 »

Thanks for the responses. If rot is a concern with the Pella wood clad casement, it sounds like I should stay away from that model? Is there one of Pella's vinyl casements you would recommend instead?.....or should I exclusively stick with the other brands of vinyl casements you mentioned? Since you stated that the Pella wood clad casement price was good, I was thinking it might be worth getting a quote on one of the vinyl casements from that dealer (McComb Pella Window and Door of Indianapolis) if there is a model you consider to be on the same level as the other brands you recommended?

If the Pella install warranty is only two years, does that apply to their own "Pella" people doing the install? So, if there is a problem that arises with the window due to an installation error, the warranty of the product is basically void? Is that correct?

Also, what Vytex models would you recommend? I was contacted by a person on one of my facebook posts saying he worked for Vytex windows and that they manufacture and install Window Nation and that he could refer me to them? Can you explain that to me? Can you recommend a particular Vytex casement model and/or an Okna, Vytex or Sunrise
dealer/Installer in my area, and particular models of those manufacturers you would recommend or shy away from?

Thanks again for any info and recommendations. I'm just trying to gather as much info as possible to make a decision on a product and install that will last. The only thing I'm pretty much decided on is going with casements. I'm flexible on material, brand, etc. as long as it's a quality product, quality install, and hopefully no more than 35K.

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TheWindowNerd
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Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex

Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#6 Post by TheWindowNerd »

If you want a wood interior you should read the Pella warranty. Then I would also look at Elevate by Marvin: fiberglass exterior with wood interior.
If you are not a wood snob then Essential by Marvin would also be a choice, pricey with no real glass option.
Most vinyl companies have only one casement series though they may have 3 -4 DH.
Okna 700
Vytex: wouldn't let a WN installer near my house.
Once you select a product, though hard, vetting the installer will be harder. Don't mean to be pessimistic, but helpful in suggesting you check everything you can.
Oh. Pella would be 250 series. I don't know if I like "pella install", I like an independent contractor. There is very little real difference in warranty.

Brandon: you liked my puffery statement.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#7 Post by HomeSealed »

TheWindowNerd wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:05 am

Brandon: you liked my puffery statement.
Not particularly, just thought it was ironic.

apmech46166
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#8 Post by apmech46166 »

Thanks for all the help. UPDATE: I received an OKNA quote and wanted to know what you all thought about how it compares to the Apex Insignia quote. I'm not familiar with the installer Mr. Window or how warranty work would be honored with OKNA. I have received several positive reports from owners of the APEX Insignia and their warranty coverage sounds very good and I feel comfortable choosing them. Although the quality of the window may be lower on the Apex I believe they will honor warranty repairs well. I just wonder if OKNA will do as well at honoring any warranty issues?

Pella Lifestyle series Casement/Pella Install: wood clad, color matching inside and out, including grids ($2000 for grids included in total shown)
($6500 installation included in total shown)
$37,100

Alside Casement/Contractor install: I was told Alside only offers one vinyl option in casement
(installation cost was not itemized, assuming grids included)
$33,500

Apex Insignia Casement/Apex Install: vinyl, color matched inside and out.
(without grids)
$30,902
(with grids)
$33,495

OKNA 500DX Casement/Mr. Window (Indianapolis) Install: tan outside, white inside. (without grids)
$22,522 including tax

Thanks for your feedback

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toddinmn
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#9 Post by toddinmn »

I would make sure all the installation details are the same or similar. These details get more crucial on a “full tame” window replacement. Sills usually get removed on full framed install . The Okna sounds a little cheap considering operator type, mulled units, color options and installation method.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#10 Post by TheWindowNerd »

I agree with Todd. You need to make sure install is apples to apples.
It appears to me that the Okna bid is not full frame with applied jamb extension.
Are all your units casements? Okna casements would be 700DX.

Having a good install is more important than the product selection. Having a company that has a long and excellent record is one of many good things to look for.

apmech46166
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:50 am

Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#11 Post by apmech46166 »

Thanks for the info. All my units are casements and I have responded to the company to clarify some things such as whether it's full frame and whether sills are being replaced in the quote. Thank you for reiterating and giving examples of how I can try to compare apples to apples. I thought the OKNA quote sounded too low as well, but thought it could be due to being quoted white interior and white hardware compared to color options OTHER than white on the other manufacturer quotes I received. I also thought the 700 series was their casement window, so I asked for clarification on that as well. Their quote specifically said "casement" and "500DX".

I am a little hung up on seeking an OKNA option since they are so highly regarded on this forum but this seems to be my only dealer in the area and I'm not getting the best vibe so far, although their reviews are decent online. So, is going with say the Apex Insignia a mistake, since I am getting the best feeling from them based on their responsiveness, communication, warranty, and the fact that I have gotten several firsthand accounts from satisfied customers who have even had very good results with them honoring warranty claims years down the road? (This point has really impressed me)

What Marvin casement would you recommend given the other contenders I have listed, so as to stay in this price range? I have found a well regarded contractor in the area that offers Marvin windows.

Thanks again all

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#12 Post by TheWindowNerd »

Not sure what to say about the Apex window. If I had one to touch and install, read the structural test report, and digest the warranty I could advise better. You are right to give credit for the things you like about the company/installer.

Language can be confusing, what does full frame replacement mean. It can mean an insert install, it is a "full frame." But I would clarify and say a full frame/full tear is to rip everything out right down to the original RO ( rough opening). The new unit comes with factory applied jamb extension, and new interior casing/trim is applied.

In Marvin you will have at least three choices Essential, Elevate, or Signature.
Essential is all fiberglass - no wood.
Elevate is fiberglass with a wood interior.
Signature is extruded aluminum exterior and wood interior.
The curved units can not be done in fiberglass. but they will be done with Signature as direct glazed units to go with either of the fiberglass lines.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#13 Post by HomeSealed »

TheWindowNerd wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:49 am Not sure what to say about the Apex window. If I had one to touch and install, read the structural test report, and digest the warranty I could advise better. You are right to give credit for the things you like about the company/installer.
Its a re-labeled Alside window.
TheWindowNerd wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:49 am Language can be confusing, what does full frame replacement mean. It can mean an insert install, it is a "full frame." But I would clarify and say a full frame/full tear is to rip everything out right down to the original RO ( rough opening). The new unit comes with factory applied jamb extension, and new interior casing/trim is applied.
This sentiment I agree with strongly.

@APMECH : There are many things that can be considered "full frame", and with a wide price spectrum.
To me, a TRUE full frame includes removal of the old window including the nail fin down to the RO/studs. The new window is installed with nail fin, flashing tape (and fin) integrated into the WRB (housewrap), sill pan, new exterior trim, new interior woodwork. Some guys will reuse the woodwork. As you might imagine, this is a pretty comprehensive (and expensive) installation.

At the other end of the "full frame" spectrum is and "express" type install. The old window is cut out with the nail fin left embedded, the new one is slid in with no fin against the backside of the interior trim, foam and caulk added where you can.

Those two types of installs will be hundreds of dollars apart PER WINDOW, and then there are some variations in between that some guys call "full frame" as well.

On product, the Okna is the easy winner. It sounds like you have 21 window frames, so at $22k that guy is probably not that far off if the installation is on the more simplistic end. If that did include the true, full frame install, I'd agree with Todd that it would be low.

The next step for you IMO is to get some nitty gritty details on these installs. Personally I'd move on from all Alside windows (including Apex), but that is just me. Either way, get the details on all options that you are seriously considering (and this already assumes that the frame of the existing window is coming out):
- Will the new window be sized the same or smaller
- Will a nail fin be used on the new window
- Will the exterior trim be replaced (the substrate, not just the aluminum)
- Will the interior woodwork be replaced? If so, with what? Unfinished? Prefinished?
- Will a sill pan (membrane or other) be used?
- Will new head flashing be installed on the exterior?

None of these things are an absolute MUST on every install, but again, comparing apples to apples is the first step here IMO. A higher price could still be a better value in some cases.

apmech46166
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#14 Post by apmech46166 »

Thanks again for all the help. I've got it narrowed down to 3 options for now after getting some install details. These prices are as close I have gotten so far to comparing apples to apples. It seems none of these three companies default to quoting a true full frame replacement as I've seen described by y'all, which is disappointing. Anyway, here are the prices and details:

Alside Vinyl Casement/Install by Local Construction Company (Beeson) 5-year labor warranty
$24,000 for an install using the existing window frame. Any lower frame rot, sill rot, or moulding rot would be cut out ​and fresh wood put in its place before wrapping with aluminum
$26,200 for a full tear out down to the RO
Lead time: 12-20 weeks

Apex (Alside/AMI) Insignia Vinyl Casement/Install by Apex
$30,145 tear out down to RO. Sills replaced. Any rotted brick moulding will be cutout and fresh wood put in its place before wrapping with aluminum
Lead time: 20-24 weeks

Okna 700DX Vinyl Casement/Install by local Okna dealer "Mr. Window" 1-year labor warranty
$22,522 install was quoted as full frame when I asked, but I failed to quiz him if that is actually down to the RO. They stated that if they find any rot found in the sill or brick moulding they will cut it out and fill the void with foam before wrapping with aluminum. That is very concerning to me, is that a red flag to any of you? He stated that subsill rot would not be covered by their install. I am not impressed with their responsiveness at this point, compared to the competitors, but can I expect to not have to converse with them much in the future since they are installing a far superior product?
Lead time: I haven't asked yet!

Based on this info what would y'all choose for our 30 year old brick veneer home? Thanks so much

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toddinmn
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Re: Casement Quotes/Advice

#15 Post by toddinmn »

The Apex bid is confusing and a contradiction . If you were to go down to the rough opening there would be no rotted brick mold or sill to replace.
I “Mr. Window” was trying to convey that they would remove the rotted wood and replace it with wood then set the window and foam it in. I would be concerned if they were going to just foam this cavities but I’m not sure how they would even do it nor have I ever seen it done.

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