Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

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HomeSealed
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#16 Post by HomeSealed »

The Provia will be better than the VK and Alside window IMO, but still firmly behind the Okna and some of the other top vinyl window performers.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#17 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

Here is what I can tell you about vinyl Kraft especially the legacy. I’ll speaks volumes to me when there were multiple companies in my markets who advertise $189 installed. I’m sure we’ve all seen those ads before. They pretty much all use vinyl Kraft legacy. I think the Alside product is light years ahead of vinyl Kraft and that’s saying a lot. If your flipping the house then I’m sure it’s a viable option but if you plan on living there I would steer clear. Visit a showroom and handle the 3 options and you’ll be able to feel why they are all priced like they are

JK-TN
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#18 Post by JK-TN »

I believe I have all of my competitive quality window quotes in now.

Okna 600 is $34,600 total for the 31 double hung windows and 2 patio sliders.

ProVia Endure is $30,200 for the same number of windows and doors.

Polaris Ultraweld is $34,900 for the same number of windows and doors.

Softlite Elements is $37,800 for the same number of windows and doors.

All of the installers have great reviews, so I don't see a big difference between them. I'm mainly debating between the Okna and ProVia at this point. I'm open to any thoughts on the other quotes/windows.

I know several regular contributors have posted that the ProVia is not quite as good as the Okna. Would anyone be able to give me specific reasons to help me better evaluate the 2 windows?

The ProVia has a integrated latch and tab to open the bottom double hung portion that I really like. I don't know if it would be an issue of holding up over time.

One of the biggest differences between the ProVia and the Okna local dealers is the warranty. The ProVia dealer offers 2 years labor as well as lifetime on frame, glass, glass breakage, and screens. It is transferable.

The Okna dealer offers 1 year labor warranty as well as lifetime on frame and glass. It is transferable. It doesn't appear that they offer lifetime on glass breakage and screens.

Also, not a huge deal, but the ProVia dealer wants 30% down at order vs. 50% down for the Okna dealer. I'm able to pay either amount, but I do appreciate the lower down payment amount with the current long lead times for the windows.

I've never had a window glass break, so I don't know how important that coverage is. We do plan to open and use our new windows much more often, so the potential for breakage is higher. I've also never spent 30k on windows before and I would hate to think it would cost me $500 - $1000 or more if I accidently broke a window/patio slider. Even if I could, I probably wouldn't file a claim with homeowner's insurance due to a high deductible and the insurance company's propensity to drop you if you file small claims.

Delaware Mike
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#19 Post by Delaware Mike »

The potential for glass breakage probably has more to due with an accident or act of nature then owner usage. Bad bird strike, tree branch, of something out of weed whacker or lawnmower is what I've seen over the years. Of course we dealers can get a defective lite of glass with a small defect that one cannot see with the naked eye that will turn into a stress crack during a big temperature change. It's not that common and I've not had one in decade. Ironically, the last one I had was on a Soft-Lite Element DH about 10-years ago and they simply sent out a new sash free of charge of course.

I'm a direct ProVia dealer forever, thus I have a ton of experience with all of their lines. I also do the OKNA 600dx and 800dx series. I'm very surprised to see the Endure being less price wise. I see it being typically more of higher quotes in my area amongst all those dealer with ProVia. OKNA comprises about 85% of my vinyl orders and I only go to ProVia when OKNA may have a rare occasion in which they don't have an option available that the homeowner has falling in love with. ProVia does have some nice exterior new construction frame options that OKNA isn't offering just yet. I'm working on them.

The biggest advantage that I see between the ProVia vinyl and OKNA has to do with the engineering of the vinyl extrusion and weatherstripping. OKNA does a tremendous job with the sizing, type, and tie-in of their meeting rail weatherstripping over the ProVia. I think the exterior of the 500,600, and 800 is more attractive frame wise. I do like the Duo-Tech locks on the ProVia, but if I install an order of 10 of them, one is goofy and put together wrong at the plant and I'll have to hope I have extra inventory with me to make correct. This is really nit-picking, but the Duo Tech locks that they utilize aren't my favorite either. Symmetrically, I feel that they too small and much prefer the stronger ones from Ashland that a few other "Duo Tech" like vinyl windows are utilizing.

It's a shame you can't see both samples side by side from a dealer that has both. Good luck.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#20 Post by HomeSealed »

You have three very good to excellent choices there, all priced fairly closely. You wouldn't go wrong with the Okna, Polaris, or the Elements. The Okna will have a slight advantage in performance and do so with slimmer lines (more glass) than the other two, so that would be my winner.

I'd drop the Provia as it just isn't on par with the others. Poorer performance, kind of bulky, those locks tend to be service issues down the road in my experience, sticky pads needed for air leakage at the meeting rail (they fall off), and frankly Provia has not really established themselves as a "window company" IMO. The make great doors, but they just started making windows a few years ago. The window in question is a "kit" that they buy and assemble, not a proprietary design like the Okna or Elements. To clarify, there are far worse windows on the market, but I just don't put them in the conversation with the top tier offerings, three of which you've seen.

JK-TN
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#21 Post by JK-TN »

Delaware Mike wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:05 am The potential for glass breakage probably has more to due with an accident or act of nature then owner usage. Bad bird strike, tree branch, of something out of weed whacker or lawnmower is what I've seen over the years. Of course we dealers can get a defective lite of glass with a small defect that one cannot see with the naked eye that will turn into a stress crack during a big temperature change. It's not that common and I've not had one in decade. Ironically, the last one I had was on a Soft-Lite Element DH about 10-years ago and they simply sent out a new sash free of charge of course.

I'm a direct ProVia dealer forever, thus I have a ton of experience with all of their lines. I also do the OKNA 600dx and 800dx series. I'm very surprised to see the Endure being less price wise. I see it being typically more of higher quotes in my area amongst all those dealer with ProVia. OKNA comprises about 85% of my vinyl orders and I only go to ProVia when OKNA may have a rare occasion in which they don't have an option available that the homeowner has falling in love with. ProVia does have some nice exterior new construction frame options that OKNA isn't offering just yet. I'm working on them.

The biggest advantage that I see between the ProVia vinyl and OKNA has to do with the engineering of the vinyl extrusion and weatherstripping. OKNA does a tremendous job with the sizing, type, and tie-in of their meeting rail weatherstripping over the ProVia. I think the exterior of the 500,600, and 800 is more attractive frame wise. I do like the Duo-Tech locks on the ProVia, but if I install an order of 10 of them, one is goofy and put together wrong at the plant and I'll have to hope I have extra inventory with me to make correct. This is really nit-picking, but the Duo Tech locks that they utilize aren't my favorite either. Symmetrically, I feel that they too small and much prefer the stronger ones from Ashland that a few other "Duo Tech" like vinyl windows are utilizing.

It's a shame you can't see both samples side by side from a dealer that has both. Good luck.
Thanks for the detailed response. Your extensive experience with both windows helps me to understand the technical differences between the two windows.

I haven't been able to see the two windows side by side, but I've found a few YouTube videos where they go through the features of both. I was able see some of the design and feature differences after watching those videos.

JK-TN
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#22 Post by JK-TN »

HomeSealed wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:55 pm You have three very good to excellent choices there, all priced fairly closely. You wouldn't go wrong with the Okna, Polaris, or the Elements. The Okna will have a slight advantage in performance and do so with slimmer lines (more glass) than the other two, so that would be my winner.

I'd drop the Provia as it just isn't on par with the others. Poorer performance, kind of bulky, those locks tend to be service issues down the road in my experience, sticky pads needed for air leakage at the meeting rail (they fall off), and frankly Provia has not really established themselves as a "window company" IMO. The make great doors, but they just started making windows a few years ago. The window in question is a "kit" that they buy and assemble, not a proprietary design like the Okna or Elements. To clarify, there are far worse windows on the market, but I just don't put them in the conversation with the top tier offerings, three of which you've seen.
I'm leaning toward the Okna, mainly due to the great feedback from you and the rest of this group. The tech specs for the Okna windows seem to beat all of the other windows that I've been quoted.

I was doing some Okna research and I think I came across your website. I wish you did business in East TN. I noticed that it looks like you do offer a lifetime glass breakage warranty. I also found a copy of a Okna glass breakage warranty in my research. Do dealers choose to offer that or not? I guess I don't understand why my local dealer doesn't offer it when all of the quotes that I've been given, even the much lower quotes, offer lifetime glass breakage coverage. I know that it's very unlikely to ever happen, but that protection would definitely give me some peace of mind with such a big investment in my home.

JK-TN
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#23 Post by JK-TN »

I'm getting closer to making my window purchase decision and I'm leaning heavily toward the Okna 600 due to all of the good feedback here and better understanding the tech specs.

My local dealer offers the Heat Seal Deluxe as part of the standard quote. I can upgrade to the Sun Seal Deluxe for an extra $50 per window. It's $388 more per patio slider. I'm in East TN and I'm not in the mountains, so we have a very hot climate for several months of the year. Would I be better served to pay for the Sun Seal? I know that the LVT is lower, but are there are there other pros/cons that I need to consider?

I have a few openings that currently have 2 double hungs together that I'm consider putting just 1 dual slider to save some money. I'm not quite sure if my wife would like the look of it because we would have double hungs on one half of the house and double sliders on the other half. Would you recommend the EZ Glide over the standard slider if I go with sliders?

Finally, I have 3 large picture windows that I was thinking about replacing later. I'm now thinking of replacing them in this project. They're approximately 59" x 71". The Okna dealer has quoted $5,054 for 3 600s and $5,914 for 3 Starmark 7500s. They currently have no frame, just wood trim around the glass. I know that new windows would add a frame, but I'd like to minimize it as much as possible. I was thinking that the Starmark would have less of a frame with the stronger composite material vs. the vinyl of the 600. I'd appreciate any thoughts on that and if it would be worth it to pay more for the composite in this particular situation.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#24 Post by TheWindowNerd »

If it were me I would just do the deluxe package.

Based on convert twin DH to 2 section slider , dd the easy slide.

I would stick with the 600 PW.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#25 Post by HomeSealed »

The composite window is phenomenal and does have slimmer lines. If you are considering going to the Starmark for the entire project I think that would very much be a worthwhile consideration, but if just for these PW's, not so much. The frame construction is generally less of a concern on a fixed unit as every side is fastened to the opening, whereas operating units have components that don't gain strength from being fastened to the wall.

As far as glass breakage, I'm not sure what Okna may have offered years ago, however I have not seen in the last decade at minimum. Most often those are offered by the installing dealer. I offer it as it provides value and peace of mind to my customers at minimal cost, but not all dealers feel the same way.

JK-TN
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#26 Post by JK-TN »

TheWindowNerd wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:30 pm If it were me I would just do the deluxe package.

Based on convert twin DH to 2 section slider , dd the easy slide.

I would stick with the 600 PW.
Thanks for your thoughts on the windows. I hadn't really thought much about the details/options until I narrowed down my window choices.

JK-TN
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Re: Replacement quotes for 1960s brick ranch

#27 Post by JK-TN »

HomeSealed wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:04 pm The composite window is phenomenal and does have slimmer lines. If you are considering going to the Starmark for the entire project I think that would very much be a worthwhile consideration, but if just for these PW's, not so much. The frame construction is generally less of a concern on a fixed unit as every side is fastened to the opening, whereas operating units have components that don't gain strength from being fastened to the wall.

As far as glass breakage, I'm not sure what Okna may have offered years ago, however I have not seen in the last decade at minimum. Most often those are offered by the installing dealer. I offer it as it provides value and peace of mind to my customers at minimal cost, but not all dealers feel the same way.
I would consider the Starmark for all of the windows if I had a newer home where the windows were more of a feature of the home. My windows are small and don't really stand out except for the 3 picture windows.

Thanks for the information on the glass breakage. I think you're doing the right thing by offering it to your customers.

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