Advise on window quotes

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MT-transplant
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:22 pm
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Advise on window quotes

#1 Post by MT-transplant »

Hi, I’ve doing research on windows for about a month. Before that, I knew nothing about windows other than how to clean them, :D so I’m a bit overwhelmed by all the choices. After attending a couple of home shows in the area I’ve been getting replacement window estimates from several companies and I’d like some advise from those of you in the know or others that have recently replaced their windows on which of these products they feel are superior.

A little background on the job… It’s a mid-80s town home (2 story); the windows must be sliders and have a brown exterior. Current siding is vinyl. These bids have been for total replacement as opposed to insert-type. I thought the house really needed total replacement because I can feel a breeze coming from around the current aluminum windows. The lack of insulation was confirmed yesterday when I pulled a piece of trim from the side of one of the windows. You can see the side of the window, an empty space, and the stud.

Here are the windows I’ve looked at and the quoted prices. All windows are double paned, low E argon filled glass. Labor on the first (smallest) window is higher because the existing wall needs to be built up about a foot.

Marvin Infinity (Everwood/ Bronze exterior)

________1 x (35” x 33”)-----1 x (70.5” x 46”)--- 2 x (46.5” x 46)
window___$565----------------$747-----------------$623 ea
labor_____$971----------------$721-----------------$721 ea
Total = $5692.00
Labor includes all inside trim and windows stained to my specifications. If I want to do all staining myself I can knock $100.00 off the labor of each window.

Soft-lite Barrington (Bronze)

All windows $538.56. Total job = $5306.00. No inside trim provided or installed on three of the windows. No staining of the trim on the one provided and installed.


Alside - I had three models quoted. All in white interior and brown exterior

_____________1 x (35” x 33”)____1 x (70.5” x 46”)___2 x (46.5” x 46)
Swing–N-clean____$510____________$790___________$670 ea.
UltraMaxx________$480____________$670___________$600 ea.
Sheffield_________$480____________$670___________$600 ea.
Labor____________$790____________$660___________$630 ea.
Trim installed but not finished.

Total (Swing-N-Clean) = $5350.00
Total (UltraMaxx/Sheffield) = $5060.00

Can anyone suggest any other windows I should consider? I'm going to go and look at the Pella fiberglass window today in the showroom. BTW, I'm in Minnesota.

Thanks for any and all help! :)

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Windows on Washington
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#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

Holy mackerel. Over $1250 per window average.....you need to keep shopping. Those prices are un-real.

MT-transplant
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Minnesota

#3 Post by MT-transplant »

Thanks for replying Windows on Washington. Do you think the windows themselves are priced to high, the labor, or both? I didn't know what I was going to have to pay, but I admit the prices did seem high to me compared to what other people on the board said that they were paying.

To be fair though, they might have been getting insert windows installed from the inside (not touching the trim). Also, all three vendors explained how they install windows very well and I believe all would do a really good job.

That being said, I am very much not rich. Just a single person trying to get by. This is my first home purchase and I was able to get it because it does need some major work. So if you know of any other windows I should consider, please let me know. Thanks!

I did go look at the Pella window today and I didn't like it very well so that one is out.

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Windows on Washington
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#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

Both are extremely high. The labor seems to be the higher of the two. Keep shopping and calling around. You will probably wind up paying about 1/2 to a 1/3 of that price.

windowmann2000
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#5 Post by windowmann2000 »

Your prices are not that far out of line when you factor in the options of what you have looked at. Marvin Infinity or maybe Integra are by far the best of the three. Dark colors and vinyl don't mix well, but with fiberglass it's no problem. You also want a wood or simulated wood interior, another expensive option along with the dark exterior color.
Extracting metal windows and putting in full jamb units along with new interior trim and the wood inside with the dark exterior is the most expensive combination in my price book. I doubt you'll find fiberglass windows for much less. The only one I can think of is Comforlines Next Generation series.
You might consider pulling the trim and insulating the sides of a replacement unit instead of putting in a full jamb unit. I can't say that would work not having seen your situation, but it may be an option.
Heres why your job is so expensive-taken from my price book.
Metal window removal $75.00 full jamb install $175.00 new interior trim installed $125.00 stain wood or fiberglass window (two coats plus poly finish) $125.00 all of these charges are over a normal retrofit install.

windowrep
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#6 Post by windowrep »

how can someone in washington, apprx. 1600 miles away from your home possibly know if that price is high for your area?
since you said that you attended the area home show and set up appointments from several contractors i would assume that these quotes are from different companies. if all your quotes are within 600 bucks it would be premature to think someone is overpricing your job. without personally seeing your house it is irresponsible to judge. unless of course it is way out of wack or one of your quotes is not in line with the others. the same exact window in house A might be $350 installed, but in house B it may be $1200. remember that if you are comfortable with the company and they have a good reputation and you have talked to a few of their customers then go for it and enjoy your new windows. good luck to you.
oh yeah and for the little bit of price difference i like the marvins. imho

MT-transplant
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Location: Minnesota

#7 Post by MT-transplant »

Windowmann2000 and Windowrep, thank you both for your replies. The quotes were from three separate local companies and they did not have any knowledge of what the others bid, so it actually gave me some reassurance that the jobs came in so close. The labor portion was very similar between the Marvin and Alside dealers and I got the best feeling from these dealers. There were no games like offering deals if I signed today but pulling it back if I didn’t.

I did have one other window, Great Lakes, bid but I threw that quote away because of these types of games. (Writing the total price on a piece of paper, showing it to me, and then lowering it $2000 after a great song and dance when I didn’t immediately sign.) I showed him the door. :evil:

I did have the Marvin Infinity Ultrex bid too. These windows averaged $61 less than the Everwood clad. As these can be painted I might still consider them. I love the look of wood though. When I started this whole process I focused on wood with aluminum cladding. After reading a bunch (a lot from this site) I decided I wanted a more “maintenance-free” window.

Windowmann2000, thanks for the price breakdown, my rep already told me that if I wanted to do all the staining I could know off $400 total. Maybe if I do the inside trim he’ll be able to knock off some more. I hadn’t decided if I was going to do the staining if I went with the Infinity windows. I’ve gel-stained wood before, but never fiberglass, and don’t want to screw it up! There’s a lot to be said about experience. I’ll check out the Comforlines Next Generation. I’ve never heard of this window company but I’m learning that must be thousands of window manufactures.

The Marvin rep did say that the insert window would be a lot less expensive and only around $300 labor (I don’t know if that includes staining the windows.) I don’t know if insulating around the old ones is a good option or not either (I wish I knew more about this). I did pull off the trim from the bottom of the window and it looks like it’s just resting on the bottom footer (Is this the correct term?). No shims or screws. The screws go in from the sides into what looks to be a fiberboard type of box that the window is made from and then into the stud.

Getting these windows out will not be the problem. I could even do the demo and have holes to be filled for them. The outside part though will be the tough part. Three of the windows are on the second floor. I hate ladders, so I would bid in a ladder fee if I were doing the bid. :P Then they have to “peel back the siding”. I can only imagine what this entails but it doesn’t sound fun on a ladder. Holding back siding while trying to put on flashing and all that. Definitely a two or more person job (so more ladders).

Thanks again for your replies. I too lean toward the Marvin windows. One more question. One of the other dealers cautioned me that fiberglass was “brittle” and that the corners might crack. Have any of you heard of this? :? This was touched on in one of the forums but I couldn't figure out if this was perhaps a problem in the past, a rumor, or true.
Last edited by MT-transplant on Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Windows on Washington
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#8 Post by Windows on Washington »

windowrep wrote:how can someone in washington, apprx. 1600 miles away from your home possibly know if that price is high for your area?
since you said that you attended the area home show and set up appointments from several contractors i would assume that these quotes are from different companies. if all your quotes are within 600 bucks it would be premature to think someone is overpricing your job. without personally seeing your house it is irresponsible to judge. unless of course it is way out of wack or one of your quotes is not in line with the others. the same exact window in house A might be $350 installed, but in house B it may be $1200. remember that if you are comfortable with the company and they have a good reputation and you have talked to a few of their customers then go for it and enjoy your new windows. good luck to you.
oh yeah and for the little bit of price difference i like the marvins. imho
Since when does a persons location geographically determine what is a fair price.

I will say that I missed the section about the staining the interior wood to his specifications. That changes the labor price without a doublt.

That being said, those window prices are still high and out of line with comparable prices in this market area.

Ignoring the labor component altogether, the materials prices are a little high. Labor costs are also outside of what is standard for that type of removal, full framing, and molding.

windowrep
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Location: ne ohio

#9 Post by windowrep »

Since when does geographical location have to do with price? since the beginning of time. the government calls it COLA cost of living allowance. Home and garden tv calls it what you get for your money. CNN shows you gas prices all across the nation and they are never the same anywhere, same gallon of gas though. i do not make the rules. i do not know what a gallon of milk costs in minn. let alone the installation and product that will go into a house i have never seen. With three different contractors all coming in that close in price, obviously it is priced accordingly.

windowmann2000
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#10 Post by windowmann2000 »

MY-transplant, at first glance another window dealer might think your base price is a little high, but if looked at closely it is not. We are a mid priced dealer in a city of 200,000 people in Wisconsin. Our base price on a 72x46 Sheffield installed and wrapped is $720.00. The brown exterior option is $169.00 and the simulated oak interior is $138.00, if this is what your Alside dealer is quoting you a mid-range price would be $1027.00 plus labor extras we would be much higher, compared to the bids you have received.
If your old windows come out by just unscrewing, rather than cutting a flange it lowers the price by $45.00 and if that's the case a typical retrofit application may be your best option, as a full jamb and new trim etc gets pretty expensive.
Fiberglass windows can easily beat vinyls when it comes to multi colored units as most of them will give you a brown exterior at no additional charge.
In as far as fiberglass being inferior and cracking in the corners bs........fiberglass has a very low expansion rate about 8x better than vinyl. It;s durability in a properly made unit will out perform anthing else made today.
My favorite is Accurate Dorwin, but quite expensive. They have been making fiberglass windows for 25+ years. Comfortline around 18+ years and Marvin I'm not sure but closer to five or six years. Given the chance I'd give my left arm to be a Marvin Infinity dealer (I would need the right one to write all the contracts) but it's not available to me.
Prices will vary according to region, but yours aren't that considering all of the options.

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Windows on Washington
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#11 Post by Windows on Washington »

windowrep wrote:Since when does geographical location have to do with price? since the beginning of time. the government calls it COLA cost of living allowance. Home and garden tv calls it what you get for your money. CNN shows you gas prices all across the nation and they are never the same anywhere, same gallon of gas though. i do not make the rules. i do not know what a gallon of milk costs in minn. let alone the installation and product that will go into a house i have never seen. With three different contractors all coming in that close in price, obviously it is priced accordingly.
Don't you just love it when someone tries to educate you on something that you already know...right...

Regardless of where he lives, materials costs should be fair consistent minus variables for shipping and recieving costs attributable to locations.

I am looking at his pricing based on the Washington DC Metro area (one of the most expensive areas in the nation to live based on property values and living expenses)

That being said, his quotes seemed a little high on several of the items. As I stated previously, I skipped over the portion where he mentionned staining the interior trim wood so the labor charge is subject to examination.

I would not use the fact that 3 different contractors came in with similiar prices as the litmus test for legitimacy. If I got 3 quotes from Long Fence, Sears, and misc. dealer...they might all be high and all be wrong.

In the end, I would encourage him to shop the deal more and see what he comes up with.

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