Order for Schuco casements switched to Alsides: okay or bad?

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Mark
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:26 am
Location: Atlanta

Order for Schuco casements switched to Alsides: okay or bad?

#1 Post by Mark »

Today. about 3 weeks after placing my order for a bunch of Schuco replacement windows, my salesman called me and said that the 3 casements in my kitchen (24" by 73" each) were too large for Schuco to make and that he was going to switch those 3 windows over to be Alside casements instead because Alside made casements that big and that they were supposedly good. He said that Alside only had one brand of casements and therefore they weren't necessarily Sheffields or Excalibers. He also said that the frames for the Alside casements were like only 3" wide while those of the Schuco were 5". And lucky me, there would be no change in price eventhough the Alsides were more expensive because they were in a smaller order, nor no change in the warranty. And nevermind that the contract says all the windows are to be Schucos. Anyway, my questions:

1) How good are the Alside casements compared to Schuco's?

2) How different looking is the Alside casement window from a Schuco double-hung window? In other words, if I accept this offer, will my wife shoot me because the windows don't match?

3) What other options can you suggest? One is to switch from casement to Schuco double-hung (we already have double-hungs there now, and we were just trying for a lighter look).

Thank you.

Windowman PA
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:06 am

SCHUCO CASEMENTS

#2 Post by Windowman PA »

DID YOUR DEALER CALL SCHUCO? THEY MIGHT MAKE A LARGER HEIGT IF YOUR WIDTH IS NOT AT MAX SIZE :D MOST MANUFACTURES HAVE A MIN-MAX BUT WILL ALLOW YOU TO GO ABOVE :D CALL SCHUCO 1-877-472-4826 ASK FOR CINDY :D GOOD LUCK :D

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

#3 Post by Window4U (IL) »

Tall casements make me nervous, even if they are within size limitations. I've just seen too many problems over the years (with all sorts of brands). They are trouble waiting to happen. Over the next 20 years, there will be sagging of the sashes because of the weight, and there will also almost certainly be hardware problems sooner or later. When open, these windows are under stress not only from the weight, but also from being buffeted by the wind.
These casements you are looking at are oversize in both height and total U.I. The height can only go to 70" and the width to 32". The total of the width and heigth cannot exceed 90 "
These size limitations are not because the Schuco casement is "less of a window" than casement windows that other companies make larger. Just the opposite.
They are in place because of the engineers knowledge and research into what maximum size in any product can be made that will be relatively trouble-free for the homeowner for the next several generations. They are responsible enough to say NO.
I see window companies all the time that will basically make anything you want. They have no hesitation in making a 90" tall vinyl window, because they figure whoever gets it probably won't be in their current home long enough to come back with a warranty claim.
Many other companies have policies to make these windows any size you want, but the contractor has to sign a warranty waiver (which means there is NO warranty). Your oversize window you buy from a dealer may not be warrantied, and you may not even know it.

I would strongly try to change your mind about tall casements if I were your dealer.
My suggestion is to think about different configurations. You could go with something like reverse oriel doublehungs for example. A reverse oriel would have a smaller bottom sash, which would give you the look of a picture window in the top 3/5 of your window. A regular oriel would have a larger bottom sash. Good luck with your decisions.

Mark
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:26 am
Location: Atlanta

What exactly is a reverse oriel window?

#4 Post by Mark »

What exactly is a reverse oriel window? Is it like a double hung in operation and styling but in the reverse oriel there is like a 2/5 sash on the bottom and a 3/5 sash on top? I can't find a photo of one. Does Schuco make this type of window? Do both sashes move up and down, or only the bottom sash? Thank you for help.

ps - It is hard to imagine that Schuco is really going to achieve the Lexus reputation level in the US until they can get much higher quality dealers, like yourself Window4U(IL) - I wish you were my dealer.

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

#5 Post by Window4U (IL) »

I wanted to show you a couple photos of a reverse oriel so I quickly threw up a couple pages on my blank 2nd website. Don't pick on the design, I only spent 45 minutes on the entire site. I'll be designing a professional site this winter when I have a little more time.
The photos of the reverse oriels are the first window in the first row, and then the first window in the 13th row. An example of regular oriels is the first photo in the 6th row.
Just a note of clarification...not all the windows in these photos are Schuco. I sell many brands.
http://www.schuco-windows.com/pages/7/index.htm

Oh, and thanks for the compliment. Hopefully, forums like this and constant posts from people like FenEx, Guy, and many other fine pros will help turn the industry from unethical professional sales closers to quality professonal contractors.
There is absolutely no need for deception if you are a quality contractor with quality products. Your sales will actually grow higher if you run your company with integrity and honesty.


window4u@insightbb.com
Last edited by Window4U (IL) on Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

AR50

#6 Post by AR50 »

This question is for W4U.

Could you please give us the names of the companies that you are aware of that would knowingly make a window that will be defective?

It suprises me that "other" companies would hire engineers that don't know what they're doing.

Also, what companies do you know of that require their contractors to sign a waiver? Thanks.

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

#7 Post by Window4U (IL) »

I really don't think I want to post names for liability reasons. I will tell you who has warranty waivers if you want to email me though.

The question of who would knowingly sell a defective window makes me chuckle, especially after 30 years in the business. It's widespread. Go look at vinyl builders units or any low end window. Look at the chinsy hardware, thin walled flimsy extrusions, low quality spacers, low quality vinyl, or insufficient weatherstripping that a lot of these windows use. Also look at the maximum size they will make them. You will find many of these windows have maximum widths of 54" and maximum heights of 84". You dont think these companies know that the windows are crap and aren't going to work correctly for very long? It all comes down to profit.
"Build it cheap and they will come."
Is this to say no one cares about quality and longevity? Of course not. There are lots of fine window companies who stick to their guns on size limitations and try to constantly make their windows better, stronger, and more energy efficient. We talk about these companies every day and recommend them wholeheartedly.

mybaby2028
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:23 am

Warping expected on my casements?

#8 Post by mybaby2028 »

Window4U,

I knew there were size limitations in windows since my dealer's salesmen boasted that they have the largest legally allowed. But, I hadn't heard of warping of large casements. This has me concerned about my new windows. . .
I had 3 windows openings done: 2 uneven triple lite casements (44in.x84in. & 67in.x70in.) and a 3 lite bay (roof) w/ casements (44in.x84in.). While only a portion of these measurements make up the casement part of the window, I notice that they are larger than sizes you mentioned are problems. Should I be concerned? Anything I should look for?

Thanks!

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

#9 Post by Window4U (IL) »

My intention in my comments was not to get everybody riled up that has large casements. My comments are regarding what I personally feel comfortable selling and what my personal opinion of large casements is regarding the possibilities of future service. I do everything possible to sell products that I will hopefully never have to service.
I would never sell a casement 84" tall, but if someone else wants to install and warranty it, more power to them. My opinion is only my opinion.
My main concern would be not only bowing, but also sagging because of the weight (on wide casements). If the sash is not very wide, that concern would diminish on the sagging.
As to what to look for, IF in the future you have sashes that start dragging and won't close, they might be sagging. Also, you can sight down the sashes when open to see if they are bowing if you are having closing problems.

My biggest advice is try to relax and enjoy them. There would be nothing worse than sitting around worrying for the next 10 years if your windows are going to have a problem. If it happens, it happens. You have a warranty.

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