What Schuco needs to improve to be a great company

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Mark
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:26 am
Location: Atlanta

What Schuco needs to improve to be a great company

#1 Post by Mark »

I have accumulated a list of things about Schuco that (in my opinion) they need to improve if they really aspire to be the best vinyl replacement window company in the US. Great products in of themselves do not a great company make. Great companies are great in all their business aspects.

1) Their website is poor at best, and has been that way for months. For instance a user can't find a list of the exclusive local dealers for their state, city, zip, etc. Doesn't matter that it is going to be improved, because right now it is poor. I could have a whole post about their poor website.

2) They are not nationwide.

3) They are not well known, particulary among window dealers. Of all the window dealers I interviewed, none of them had ever heard of Schuco even though there is a Schuco dealer in town. Of course they had all heard of Simonton.

4) Corporate sends out-of-date and incorrect literature. In another post I relate where quite recently they sent me a copy of their old warranty and they sent me a product brochure where they say they have been manufacturing in this country for 50 years (which is not true). They didn't send me any contact information for my local Schuco dealer.

5) They continue to align themselves with exclusive dealerships eventhough those dealerships employ very hard sell tactics, play extreme price games, and have a "be very wary of" reputation.

6) According to the Connnecticut BBB: "Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to not resolving complaints within the Bureau's time frame and due to an unresolved complaint." Might not be true, might be before Schuco came to the US, might be resolved, but that doesn't matter because that is what is written.

7) Just like ordinary window manufacturers, they have a confusing array of products such as: Corona2000, Corona4000, SupremaPlus, InsulSash. I have been doing research for months and some of these I have just recently heard about.

8 ) They allow their exclusive dealerships to employ sub-contractors to install their windows.

9) Their order to manufacturer to install times are measured in weeks and months, not in days.

I don't want anyone to think I am saying Schuco windows are bad. That is not my intent. About 3 weeks ago I ordered Schuco replacement windows for my house, and I wouldn't have done that if I didn't think they were a great product. But my ordering Schuco windows was in spite of all the above, and great companies are not great because consumers make "in spite of" purchases. When Schuco straightens themselves out, and are truly a great company, then that is when I want to go to my neighbors and brag that I have Schuco windows in my house.

FenEx
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Illinois

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#2 Post by FenEx »

Mark

Excellent post. When I initially introduced the Schuco products to this and other sites, it was to bring public awareness to their great products for the benefit of homeowners. In the interim, it has become blatently obvious that with greater products... come greater overall expectations as a similar list (such as yours) could be created about every window company in existance.

You are not the first... nor will you be the last to point out the very same concerns... until they are corrected. I have made many of the same suggestions myself... and therefore must agree. To simply respond with, "They are working on it", falls far short of public expectations for a premium product. I will be forwarding your post to them with hopes that your constructive criticism will help to expedite the efforts in progress.

Guy
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Minnesota

#3 Post by Guy »

Mark, I think your post was very informational. I do disagree with you on one thing. I think a good window company can use Subcontracted Installers and be very successful. There are some great independent installers out there putting windows in. Most issues come from businesses not screening their installers well enough. The other thing is window companies have interior employee's who will blame the installer's for stupid mistakes they make. This then can cause some serious hard feelings in many ways. There are a lot of little things that go wrong in these companies. The biggest thing is they order windows wrong and expect the installer to make it work. It happens all the time. That's why installers take the heat for inside error's. Then it's hard for us the installer to tell you "the idiots back at the office don't know how to order the right stuff". So we tend to take the heat for stupid mistakes. Also from the companies side it's much more economic to hire it out. Employee's are a huge expense in this field. Workers Compensation cost me $15 for every $100 dollars made by each employee alone. Now add vehicle expenses, tools, insurance, UNCLE SAM and renting a huge place to store everything. This add's up quick over a year.
I agree with all the other stuff you posted. The hard one to win will be sales tactics. Schuco is out there to sell windows! If there are wiindow companies out there who don't know the Schuco name they are dead or not admitting they've heard of them. It's important to us as business owners to stay up on product. Schuco has been in the Lime Light for the past for or five years. What people need to do more is be honest!! Then you as a home owner might just feel a bit more comfortable!! Good Luck with your window project!!!

Mark
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:26 am
Location: Atlanta

#4 Post by Mark »

Guy, I don't have anything against sub-contractors per se- sorry if it sounded that way.

In my particular case, the exclusive Schuco dealer said that they had their own installers. Several different people there said that. When the installer came out to do the technical measurement, he was wearing a shirt from a competitor of the local Schuco dealer. When I asked him about the apparent incongruity, he said that it was because he was a subcontractor and he installs lots of different windows for a lot of different companies.

Also I had been told that he was the best installer that the local Schuco dealer had (I had asked my local Schuco for their best installer to do my window installs and I had been given his name), but when I talked to him, I come to find out that he doesn't even install the windows himself - he is the head of the subcontracting company and he has several crews that do the installation.

So I didn't get the straight scoop from my local dealer about who did their installations. That in of itself doesn't mean that I will get a bad installation - in fact by my asking for the best installer, I might have been steered to their best subcontractor. And by me talking to the guy doing the technical measurement, he might send out his best install team. I still fully expect that the install team that goes to my house will do a great job.

If my local Schuco dealer had been more forthright (something like "we proudly subcontract out our window installs to an installer company that we have been doing business with for years because of their install expertise, professional manner, and overall excellence, and we fully guarantee your window install will be perfect") and less covert, then there could have been no misunderstandings. To me, as a consumer, the transparent truth always looks best, even it if isn't as "pretty" as a carefully rehearsed and choreographed story.

But back to my real complaint with subcontractors and Schuco. Schuco apparently has this policy: ""Schuco ... refuses to sell their windows to a dealer that hasn't been factory-trained by them". If the dealer employs subcontractors, what assurance does a consumer have that the factory-trained knowledge of how to do a proper Schuco-install gets fully passed onto a subcontractor or one of their several install teams, or members of the crew? If the knowledge doesn't get fully passed on, in my mind, it increases the chance that I will get a less than perfect install - and we know that a improper install can negate the benefits of a great window.

Window4U (IL)
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois

#5 Post by Window4U (IL) »

Mark wrote:
If the dealer employs subcontractors, what assurance does a consumer have that the factory-trained knowledge of how to do a proper Schuco-install gets fully passed onto a subcontractor or one of their several install teams, or members of the crew? If the knowledge doesn't get fully passed on, in my mind, it increases the chance that I will get a less than perfect install - and we know that a improper install can negate the benefits of a great window.
Mark, the training is really useful (and necessary) for the inline sliders and to some extent on the patio doors. The inline slider is unlike any other window takes a specific process to get them installed properly.
As far as double-hungs, picture windows, casements, awnings, and other types, the truth is that any good installer would not have a bit of trouble as they install the same as other brands.

mybaby2028
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:23 am

Sales Tactics a biggie

#6 Post by mybaby2028 »

I just wanted to add my non-expert 2 cents. . .

I think, for me, the biggest issue with Schuco is they have dealers who habitually practice both hard and manipulative sales practices (ex: New England Sash!) and prey on the uneducated home owners. The product and installation that the Schuco dealer sells the homeowner should be the product and installation that they get but that, at least where New England Sash is concerned, is not the case!

Regarding the sub-contractors. . .
New England Sash (Schuco dealer) salesmen mislead the consumer into thinking that the installers are not sub-contracted and are direct employs of the dealer. In fact, they knock other window companies for hiring sub-contractors to handle the installs when they, in fact, due the same. I spoke with the VP of N.E. Sash in regards to this and he said that if a company tells you that they don't have sub-contractors they are lying (isn't that what his company said!?! So, he admits they lie.) and that it is a necessity because otherwise the workers couldn't write-off their tools and the like, a costly expense, as a business expense. . .I understand that working in finance but still didn't need to be lied to in the first place. Furthermore, I whole-heartedly agree with Mark where he says how does the homeowner know, then, that the "Schuco factory training" has actually made its way to the actual installer of a particular job!
I was appalled that Schuco actually has a dealer that has an unsatisfactory rating with the BBB (as Mark noted). I can't speak for other Schuco dealers but the dealer for New England (N.E. Sash) and I think that this aspect as well as MANY other tactics their salesman utlize are not only hard, manipulative, and shady but also unethical and that certainly should be addressed by Schuco at any and all dealers.

I also worry about the outdated/incorrect liturature. . .How do I know what I have/get is current and correct?!?

windowshopper
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:04 am

#7 Post by windowshopper »

I have experienced hard and manipulative sales practices and the price games also and unfortunately from companies who sell the brand of window that I want the most. In order to get the window I want I either have to buy from one of them or buy a brand that I really don!t want from someone else who is great. It is frustrating. Sales tactics alone would not deter me because you can work around those and a lot of times those are the type that will give you the best deal if you know how to deal with them. I would have already had windows installed by now but at this point I am trying to figure out what to do.

I really wonder because these companies say they choose the companies to sell and install their windows only after careful consideration. I get the impression that the companies select the people that are going to use the hard sell and price games knowingly and intentionally and those are the ones that they want. Unfortunately it is those types that you also seem to have other issues with also.

Guy
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Minnesota

#8 Post by Guy »

You all have very good points on issues that have upset you or put up the red flag. If there's one thing I do when selling windows more than anything. It's educate the customer on what we do and why we do it. You could say I hold they're hand through the entire project. For me this is the only way to go. Unfortunately 95% of the sales force today have no clue how to install the windows they sell. If more salesmen would pick up a hammer and install some windows they would look at it much differently. I never force a sale and my price today is the same next week. That's just me though! There are many aggressive companies who push hard and bash the rest. If they have to lie to win your business (as they did with Mybaby) they will end up closing they're doors soon. Schuco or any other supplier will never put up with the bad reviews. On the other hand they will never know if people like you don't forward the information to them. Which I'm sure Mr. FenX is doing everytime someone gets they're dander up! So your words of wisdom won't go on deaf ears. It just takes time to get things under control. I do hope everything else turns out better in the long run for everyone!!

windowshopper
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:04 am

Complaint to window company

#9 Post by windowshopper »

I emailed a complaint to the company about the sales tactics the dealer used and described in detail what took place and that if there were no other dealer available in the area that I would to look to another company even though my choice was their window. The company did not even tell me about the other available dealer. The response back was that after the installation they never have any complaints about the dealer I complained about and they would forward my complaint to the dealer.

In other words they could care less.

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