Generations (Simenton?) warranty vs WW (Alside)?

[stars1234]

I live in Utah. the Climate & UV at 5K feet is severe.

I'm looking at getting either the WW/Alside or the Generations/Simenton.
I was told the warranty on the Simenton and the Alside from WW is essentially the same.

I specifically asked about glass breakage due to house settling, weathering, and caulking. The salesperson for the Generations (owner of his own small, company) said each is completely covered.

Having found the "Generations" warranty, I was surprised to read that each is specifically excluded.

I know that the Alside/WW is a Limited lifetime. I didn't see anything about breakage due to house settleing or caulk failure, but maybe I missed them?

However, the WW owner has his own warranty as well as WW/Alside.

It is an "Unlimited Lifetime Warranty," written in bold at the top of the certificate.

When asked what that means, his answer was, just what it says. If the window fails, breaks, the caulk goes bad, he will fix it=no charge.

The WW business is listed with the BBB and has no complaints.

The Generations, company never mentioned Generations, only that the window is Simenton.
His company is not BBB listed.

So who would you believe? The guy who said everything is covered and never mentioned Generations, only Simenton (but the window is not on the Simenton site); and the warranty I found, excludes what I asked about.

Or the WW guy who said upfront it is an Alside window and "he" gives an unlimited lifetime warrant, in writing?

[windowmann2000]

Anything Simonton makes is better than the Alside Excalibur. I'm not advocating you go with the other guy, it's just quality control at Alside will never reach the level of Simonton. If you check previous post on the board there are many talking about WW. The big comcern is always the quality of their installers. Their paid 40-50% less so be carefull.

[Bill]

Generations is a private label line manufactured by Simonton and sold exclusively through Norandex who is Simonton largest distributor. Norandex does not install windows. This window is listed on the Simonton website as the Prism Generations 6000

Having distributed Simonton for about 10 years I can say that their customer service is the best I have ever seen and any time we have requested a replacement glass they have never questioned the cause of the breakage or failure.

I think the only reason Simonton would ask for an explanation for glass breakage is if you were requesting the replacement of multiple glass panels, this would signal to them that an event had occurred like a fire or sever settling of the house. An event like this becomes an insurance issue

Bill

[Skydawggy.]

I agree with Bill's assessment of Simonton. We have sold and installed them for 6 years and have never had an issue with their customer service.

Simonton is actively involved in the "Homes for the Troops" program and they donate 1000's of windows every year that have been returned or mis-cut, to this cause. They are also heavily involved in recycling vinyl so less of it ends up in a landfill.

These programs help give Simonton a greater incentive to have a very willing return program than many other window manuf. Plus, their quality control history is well known and well regarded in the industry.

The Generations 6000 series is almost the same window as the Reflections 5500 series. You should be able to get either with double pane glass, low e, argon gas filled, installed and capped for $450-$550 or a Impressions 9800 series, same options for $50-$75 more.

Generations has a 20 year Simonton glass breakage warranty.

http://www.simonton.com/Products/_FileD ... d=3&fid=21

Don't rule a company out because they aren't BBB members. There are legitimate reasons some companies refuse to join the BBB that have nothing to do with the products, installation quality or customer service. Keep in mind, the BBB will list a complaint whether a company is a member or not.

[stars1234]

thank you. I'd never guessed what's what.

Had no clue that the BBB takes all complaints. I feel better about that.

How in the world, did you know this window, "Generations Energy Wise" is a Simonton Prism 6000? I did a search for "Generations" on the Simonton as well as the Norandex site and came up with nothing.

I'm trying to find the specs on the Generations window--kinda hard when no one claims it. I can't even find out what kind of glass is in it.

Is the Generations the low end window for Simonton? (This particular order is for double pane, not tripple, Argon, low e, with super spacers.)

A bid just came in at $5,300 for 14, Milgard Tuscany.

My 14, Generations are costing $6,600, which I guess is a low price for them.

The Generations order has some 2 lite, dbl sliders, while the Milgard only offers 2 lite, single sliders.

I was told the Milgard Tuscany is very close in quality to the Generations.

If that is true, do you think the differences, whatever they are, justify a cost of an extra $1,300? What would you do, especially, if on a tight budget?

I can live with single sliders vs. dbl sliders. I don't even know why I'm getting everything dbl hung & dbl sliders--since I'm only going to have half screens.


Thanks
--only, I think one more thread with a couple of questions.

[Skydawggy.]

thank you. I'd never guessed what's what.

Had no clue that the BBB takes all complaints. I feel better about that.

How in the world, did you know this window, "Generations Energy Wise" is a Simonton Prism 6000? I did a search for "Generations" on the Simonton as well as the Norandex site and came up with nothing.

Well, I do sell Simonton Windows

I'm trying to find the specs on the Generations window--kinda hard when no one claims it. I can't even find out what kind of glass is in it.

Is the Generations the low end window for Simonton? (This particular order is for double pane, not tripple, Argon, low e, with super spacers.)

Nope, Generations, Reflections 5500 and Impressions 9800 are basically the same window with a few cosmetic differences. The Super Spacer option includes a silicone based spacer, a 1" spacer width and double strength glass. A very worthwhile upgrade that you should take into consideration when comparing windows.

http://www.simonton.com/Products/_Produ ... i=568&wbs=

A bid just came in at $5,300 for 14, Milgard Tuscany.

My 14, Generations are costing $6,600, which I guess is a low price for them.

That's a very good price for the Generations considering it includes SS etc.

The Generations order has some 2 lite, dbl sliders, while the Milgard only offers 2 lite, single sliders.

I was told the Milgard Tuscany is very close in quality to the Generations.

If that is true, do you think the differences, whatever they are, justify a cost of an extra $1,300? What would you do, especially, if on a tight budget?

I'd recommend buying the best window you can afford.

I can live with single sliders vs. dbl sliders. I don't even know why I'm getting everything dbl hung & dbl sliders--since I'm only going to have half screens.

Have you considered ease of cleaning? A single slider could be a problem if it's on the 2nd floor


Thanks
--only, I think one more thread with a couple of questions.

[stars1234]

thanks skydawgy. good answers and help.

To be certain then, you are saying definitely, the Generations with the super spacers, etc. is worth the extra $1,300, over the Milgard Tuscany.
There is that much difference.

To me, off course not be knowledgeable, I didn't see the difference.
But I guess it's what I can't see that can bite me later on. The extra money is at the upper limit, but it is still do able, with a loud, ouch!

Regarding differences, actually, I didn't see that much difference between those two windows and the Alside Excalibur, except the Alside uses regular Intercept spacers and the Simonton that I'm getting will have the super spacers.

You easily see then, that I don't have a clue as to what's going on, even after reading a lot. I guess that's why I'm here. To get unbiased and good information from people who know.t

When you have time, can you pm me with why the Generations is worth the extra $1,300, over the Milgard Tuscany? Just curious.

Then, unless, I hear lots of no's from others, I'll go with the Generations, that is if I can figure out if the install is going to work and not look like a mess.y.

Selling Simonton windows, you know what they look like. Please read and comment on my next thread. What do you think about installing ithe windows from the outside, and having the lower two inches of the frame, below my inside sill? Is that going to make the window look crappy, when viewed from inside?


Or should I demand them to install the way every one else says they will: place the frame on the sill, even though it's only for 1/4 of an inch at the most. Then have them fill the void beneath the window with good, solid wood, to give extra support to the bottom of the frame?

If they go ahead and, essential cut off the bottom of the frame (at least from view) and I have that 1/4 " empty space, where the old frame use to be, that they are going to have to caulk it--and I know that for at least 4 inches behind there, there is nothing.

that seems like an awful lot of trust to put in regular interior, painters caulk. If they use silicon, I'll never be able to paint it.

Do you think they could come up with some sort of vinyl trim to cover the caulk that's in the gap?

I'm getting ahead of myself, until you look at the thread. Hope it makes sense.

again, thanks

[windowmann2000]

Setting the new window on the current sill and insulating underneath is very adequate. A sill expander comes with the window which snaps into place and covers the insulation under the window. Using foam makes it more stable and extra wood is not necessary. BTW, Milgard also has Super Spacer. Most of our Milgard products are ordered with SS and Sun Coat Max which gives it a .30 u and I prefer their locking mechanism for a nice clean look. You should also be able to get double sliders, we do there just built in the Denver plant and shipped to our supplier in Aurora, Ill. When choosing between Simonton and Milgard it's a toss up for us, I like both. I don't think you'll go wrong with either. Both companies are strong with solid warranties and both are dedicated to outstanding customer service.

[stars1234]

Thanks windowmann. no one mentioned about a sill extender... what duh yah know!

Well, with the opinion that both windows are close in quality, but my bid for the Milgard is $1,000 less than the Simonton, I suppose I should go for the Milgard?

The contractor specifically told me that Milgard does not make a dbl lite, dbl slider. Maybe it's only in the triple light?

Or they don't ship that window out west (Utah).

Or, is the contractor wrong?

[windowmann2000]

The series we use from Milgard is called the Tuscany, to find out more I would call the Milgard corporate and find out what they can ship to Utah. We get double sliders but as I mentioned they are built in Colo. Your local Milgard dealer should have the ability to get pretty much anything they make. Our extra wait time is two weeks for double sliders.

[rmleer]

I just got back from a friends house who had Simonton DH's installed last year.
I don't know which line they got but compared to my DH's and my sliders, they were quality built.

There was no major echo when tapping on the glass or the frame.
That's more than I can say about my Alside Excaliburs.
When I decide to replace my 1 year old sliders, I'll definately be considering Simonton.

[stars1234]

Thanks

all the input is helpful.

It's down to the Simonton Generation, or the Milgard Tuscany. The Milgard person said he couldn't get double sliders. I'll tell him again, to check with Colo. I think that's where he says he got his windows.

The real question is there that much of a difference between the two windows to justify the extra $1,300 for the Generation windows (14 of them).

Otherwise, I'll go with the Milgard and use the money to go toward paying a mason to fix, every window and wall in the house, that both companies say are going to break--since the old frames were installed using a z bar that goes over the top & bottom of the tile sill.

[windowmann2000]

We purchase all of our Milgard products with Super Spacer and Sun-Coat max and feel it's vital for our climate in Wisconsin. The window u is .30 equiped as mentioned. I don't know if your dealer will offer you that. If he does it will run another $400-500. The Sun-Coat max being the most important option. Cosmetically I consider them equal in that I like the shadow groove welds of the Simonton and the no clutter meeting rails of the Milgard because of their locking system. Air infiltration test are comparable but the Milgard warranty is better than Simontons. Both mfrg's are very reputable and customer oriented. Both mfrg's also do a great job on detail. It would really be a toss up but the money difference has got to send you to Milgard. You can call customer service in Colo and they will tell you what's available in your location. BTW that's a very low price for the Milgards I would double check to see if it's accurate.

[stars1234]

thank you again.

I sent a reply right away, but it never showed up here on the fourm.

The suncoat max., I probably don't want, because I need the most visible light. I saw the specs that say it knocks it down to 66% from the 71% of the suncoat low e (I suppose that is cardinal 272, low e squared?).

Since we only cool about three months of the year, I'd rather have a higher SHG, than lose VLT. Superspacers though, that will be a thing I'll ask the contractor about.

My understanding is that they don't really make much of a difference in specs., but do hold the argon gas longer, than an intercept.

Regarding dble light, dble sliders, I went back to the milgard webpage, and the 1st one I clicked on showed, exactly that, in the Tuscany series.

I thought I bookmarked the page, but evidently not. Now, I can't find it. And the only thing I see in horizontal sliders that are double light, are of the XO, or OX style. Do you know where that page might be or what I can tell the contractor to order--he get's his windows from Denver.

The Milgard that I saw had flush fins, standard. The Simonton do not. Simonton said flush fins won't work on brick veener. Milgard said they will and will look very nice.

I like the look of the flush fin, vs. just a frame sitting in a hole with caulking around it. I asked the Milgard dealer, are you downsizing the glass to make room for the flush fin. He said no. Whether he orders it with the flush fin or without, the window is going to be the same size.
I asked, since you're not downsizing the window (glass area), won't you have to cut off most of the flush fin to accommodate the hole.
His reply, probably will have to cut most off, but it will still look nicer than just a frame with caulk around it.

And as I mentioned the Simonton said, a flush fin Absolutely will not work. Don't know what to believe on that one.

But if you can help me tell the contractor, what kind of window to order--horozointal double vent, dble slider, that will help. I sure wish I could find the web page.

\\edit: I just went to a site:

http://www.e-windowsonline.com/ClassicSliders.aspx

where they show what can be ordered in the tuscany line.
It lists only ox/xo. sliders.

On another web site http://www.umeasureit.com/info/1/2/15

they show available for the Tuscany:horozontal sliders & dble sliders.
The picture they appear to be 2 vent windows, with a vertical hand-hold in the middle, that would indicate to me, they both are horizontal sliders. So I don't know what's going on.

My contractor said that from where he orders (Colorado) there is no place on the order form for a two vent, horizontal, oo (double slider window). But he's going to call and try to find out about it. If there are any codes I can tell him, that would be helpful--I would ask for a PM on this but I don't see on the board where we can PM each other.

Thanks, Bob

[windowmann2000]

The double slider may be called a classic. We've ordered double sliders, in fact just got twelve in today and they have the classic style lock but also have Sun Coat max and SS, we did have the option of the new style lock but only in a single venting unit which technically is a Tuscany.