Is Schuco quiting the vinyl window business?
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windowmann2000
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:16 pm
Is Schuco quiting the vinyl window business?
The local Four Seasons dealer is a friend of mine and he told me this aft that Schuco is going out of the vinyl window business. Any truth to this? He said Four Seasons plans on purchasing Schuco. Anyone know?
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Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1548
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
Yes, they have a letter of intent for sale of the vinyl window plant. Four Seasons will start making the window in what they hope is a seamless transition later in mid 08.
For those of you with Schuco brand windows now, nothing will change. The warranty you have will still be in effect and taken care of.
The addition of new dealers from the Four Seasons Sunrooms franchises should make the window available to many more people. And, it will be the same line of products made with the same equipment.
I see it as a positive development.
This purchase will allow Schuco to concentrate on their newly developed thin film solar division and commercial aluminum business here in America. They will still be around, but just focusing on other products they sell.
For those of you with Schuco brand windows now, nothing will change. The warranty you have will still be in effect and taken care of.
The addition of new dealers from the Four Seasons Sunrooms franchises should make the window available to many more people. And, it will be the same line of products made with the same equipment.
I see it as a positive development.
This purchase will allow Schuco to concentrate on their newly developed thin film solar division and commercial aluminum business here in America. They will still be around, but just focusing on other products they sell.
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windowfairy
au contraire
In the not too distant future when people look back at Schuco how will they be remembered, was their tenure in this country profitable, were they loyal and were they a company of honor? We’d like to believe their intentions were noble and their officers all served a greater good for that is what they told us, or more accurately phrased “sold us.”
We watched and listened to leader after leader year after year pontificate their grandiose plans for the future while inside knowing something wasn’t quite right. We too were enthralled by the promises of “what could be” and perhaps it was our own greed or wishful thinking that held us captivated. Here stood this mighty entity spouting the marvels of their engineering prowess, their commitment to excellence all backed by a multi-national corporation with a seemingly endless checkbook dedicated to our mutual success. It almost takes one’s breath away when you stop and think, we were going to rule the world, or at least control the lion’s share of our own little empires.
At each changing of the guards, six at least if memory serves, the new regime would proudly boast of what glory lay ahead and like fledgling chicks we ate it up for by now we had all bought into it. Time had eroded our senses and wishful thinking clouded our judgment and tantamount to a bad poker player we felt we had to stay in the game hoping a good hand would come our way. Luck had replaced logic for we were now victims of the lie that we bought into hook, line and sinker.
An infamous German patriot once said, “A nation will easier fall prey to one big lie as to many small ones.”
The grand subterfuge we bought into was the illusion of quality and craftsmanship. We then began not only to buy into this canard we actually believed it! And each night as we sent our troops into battle we made sure they believed it too, making us no less culpable then those whom perpetuated this myth. However like a marriage gone bad it’s not one thing that causes disharmony between two parties, it’s the dawdling swelling of seemingly insignificant infractions that grows exponentially over time. Like hair left in the sink, or whose turn it is to take the garbage out, do the grocery shopping etc… like water dripping on a rock eventually time catches up.
Was it the late delivers, the partial orders, sliders that exploded like cheap Chinese firecrackers, the unfulfilled promises of colored windows, mismatched orders, stress cracks, territory infringements, betraying their closest allies, the revolving door in management and endless excuses that brought this house of cards tumbling down? Perhaps, ultimately time will tell but fundamentally it was their own superciliousness and disdains that buckled their foundation built on their own arrogance and pomposity.
It is written that the truth shall set you free, the simple fact is once upon a time for a brief moment they may have been the best, and once upon a time we actually believed that, but as we rested on our false laurels our competitors caught up. Now there are organizations that have better quality, lower U-Factors, superior customer service, two week turn a rounds, color options, quality control, written exclusive territories, true customer support and most importantly a commitment and actual partnership to further perpetuate the mutual growth of both dealer and supplier. And one other thing, integrity. Yes such a thing does exist and it’s not just banter around a conference table over endless meetings after meetings layered in over paid multi-tiered management that can’t agree on anything in a timely manner that has nothing but contempt for the very people whom were most loyal to them.
What will be their epitaph?
“Those who don’t learn from history are destined to repeat it.”
Former Schuco loyalist
P.S. With the announcement of Four Season’s buying Schuco if anyone thinks this will amount to something other than more red ink, think again. Four Season’s is by no means a “healthy” organism furthermore if they think they can somehow miraculously lay hands on this tainted factory and perform a metamorphosis of its current labor pool I’d place it right up there with the parting of the Red Sea, or more poignantly raising Lazarus from the dead.
What’s it called when you do the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result? I remember, INSANITY!
We watched and listened to leader after leader year after year pontificate their grandiose plans for the future while inside knowing something wasn’t quite right. We too were enthralled by the promises of “what could be” and perhaps it was our own greed or wishful thinking that held us captivated. Here stood this mighty entity spouting the marvels of their engineering prowess, their commitment to excellence all backed by a multi-national corporation with a seemingly endless checkbook dedicated to our mutual success. It almost takes one’s breath away when you stop and think, we were going to rule the world, or at least control the lion’s share of our own little empires.
At each changing of the guards, six at least if memory serves, the new regime would proudly boast of what glory lay ahead and like fledgling chicks we ate it up for by now we had all bought into it. Time had eroded our senses and wishful thinking clouded our judgment and tantamount to a bad poker player we felt we had to stay in the game hoping a good hand would come our way. Luck had replaced logic for we were now victims of the lie that we bought into hook, line and sinker.
An infamous German patriot once said, “A nation will easier fall prey to one big lie as to many small ones.”
The grand subterfuge we bought into was the illusion of quality and craftsmanship. We then began not only to buy into this canard we actually believed it! And each night as we sent our troops into battle we made sure they believed it too, making us no less culpable then those whom perpetuated this myth. However like a marriage gone bad it’s not one thing that causes disharmony between two parties, it’s the dawdling swelling of seemingly insignificant infractions that grows exponentially over time. Like hair left in the sink, or whose turn it is to take the garbage out, do the grocery shopping etc… like water dripping on a rock eventually time catches up.
Was it the late delivers, the partial orders, sliders that exploded like cheap Chinese firecrackers, the unfulfilled promises of colored windows, mismatched orders, stress cracks, territory infringements, betraying their closest allies, the revolving door in management and endless excuses that brought this house of cards tumbling down? Perhaps, ultimately time will tell but fundamentally it was their own superciliousness and disdains that buckled their foundation built on their own arrogance and pomposity.
It is written that the truth shall set you free, the simple fact is once upon a time for a brief moment they may have been the best, and once upon a time we actually believed that, but as we rested on our false laurels our competitors caught up. Now there are organizations that have better quality, lower U-Factors, superior customer service, two week turn a rounds, color options, quality control, written exclusive territories, true customer support and most importantly a commitment and actual partnership to further perpetuate the mutual growth of both dealer and supplier. And one other thing, integrity. Yes such a thing does exist and it’s not just banter around a conference table over endless meetings after meetings layered in over paid multi-tiered management that can’t agree on anything in a timely manner that has nothing but contempt for the very people whom were most loyal to them.
What will be their epitaph?
“Those who don’t learn from history are destined to repeat it.”
Former Schuco loyalist
P.S. With the announcement of Four Season’s buying Schuco if anyone thinks this will amount to something other than more red ink, think again. Four Season’s is by no means a “healthy” organism furthermore if they think they can somehow miraculously lay hands on this tainted factory and perform a metamorphosis of its current labor pool I’d place it right up there with the parting of the Red Sea, or more poignantly raising Lazarus from the dead.
What’s it called when you do the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result? I remember, INSANITY!
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windowmann2000
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:16 pm
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Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1548
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
I agree. Have you ever heard a more pitiful post? If he thought things were that crummy, he should have bought his windows somewhere else. I have no regrets in selling them at all. I'm proud to have sold them.windowmann2000 wrote:Oh those dastardly people, I think we've beat this horse enough, let's move on to something different like Energy Star calling for windows to meet u.10 by 2010
Mergers and sales happen every day. A US company has bought the window plant and will continue to make the window. Big deal.
Reply
Enough. I for one am tired of covering Schuco's ~.
Here are the facts which I have experienced first hand. Their service is by far the worst I have ever come across. I completely agree with prior posts stating that they have made countless promises to improve but it never happens. I have more service calls and problems with Schuco products than all of my other products and services combined times 10. They have made countless promises to dealers in the last year regarding repairing engineering flaws and as they have aborted all vinyl operations in Europe in 2006 (just found that out recently), it appears they never had any intentions of making good on improvments to future products ordered let alone those defective products that are already installed. I have had some of my clients wait as long as a year for parts!!
I can go on and on about Schuco problems and how disgusted and disappointed I am but I just got back from holiday and choose not to.
As for the recent changes, here is the info I have received, from people I trust alot more than the current Pres of Schuco USA. First of all, how can they warrant defective products that were never engineered and manufactured properly in the first place?? What about the countless insulated glass units that were only partially filled with gas due to calibration issues over this past year?? There are also hundreds if not thousands of patio doors installed that do not have adjustable fixed panels and thus bleed air like crazy and the vinyl extrusions on the 3-lites do not even have a screen receiver J-channel, rendering the screens worthless.
The claims of the existing Schuco products just changing hands are completely false! The In-line sliders have been plagued with air and water leakage problems and I can all but guaranty that they will no longer be manufactured... so how can a warranty cover them in custom sizes? The greatest strength of the Schuco product lines were their TPS glasspacks. It's my understanding that Four Seasons will not offer TPS as they have direct corporate affiliation with Cardinal Glass utilizing the Conservaglass system designed for them utilizing XLedge. It appears that the Bystronic TPS equipment is being sold off to another company in Florida that was buying units from Schuco for Hurricane Zone approval.
So now you have a company that is NOT buying the Schuco brand, just rights to their extrusions made by yet another company, getting rid of TPS, eliminating some of the Schuco lines, and potentially having NO responsibility to warrant Schuco products as they are not buying Schuco... just their machinery and ideas. Odds are that they will not even occupy the same plant in CT and will more than likely just cannibalize the equipment and bring it to the Four Seasons plant in NY. An identical replacement product would have to be ordered through numerous companies. Four Seasons already has over 300 dealers and a dozen of their own franchises selling directly to homeowners nationwide and unlike Schuco, they do protect territories. If allowed in a territory, a Schuco dealer would now have to become a Four Seasons sunroom dealer or franchise to sell a lessor product for more money.
I can assure you that Schuco's legal problems are just beginning. What kills me more than anything is that Schuco intentionally kept the sell-off a secret from dealers until the week before Christmas. They allowed dealers to jeopardize their reputations and the financial security of thier client's investments. It's my understanding that they are still accepting new orders but demanding pre-payment... go figure. Eight week lead time for simple, white double hungs, knowing Schuco, that will be more like 10-12 if they show up at all before the operations close.
I had 5 signed contracts for Schuco products and I opted to give my customers the choice and full disclosure. All 5 have chosen another route, whether it be a full refund or product substitution.
I must agree with the many others here. Dealers and consumers BEWARE! Stay tuned for future developments as I have already heard from many dealers and homeowners that are deeply concerned and are seeking similar complaintants. I have probably been one of the biggest Schuco promoters and my last 7 calls and emails have not been responded to.
Time will tell.. wait and see.
Here are the facts which I have experienced first hand. Their service is by far the worst I have ever come across. I completely agree with prior posts stating that they have made countless promises to improve but it never happens. I have more service calls and problems with Schuco products than all of my other products and services combined times 10. They have made countless promises to dealers in the last year regarding repairing engineering flaws and as they have aborted all vinyl operations in Europe in 2006 (just found that out recently), it appears they never had any intentions of making good on improvments to future products ordered let alone those defective products that are already installed. I have had some of my clients wait as long as a year for parts!!
I can go on and on about Schuco problems and how disgusted and disappointed I am but I just got back from holiday and choose not to.
As for the recent changes, here is the info I have received, from people I trust alot more than the current Pres of Schuco USA. First of all, how can they warrant defective products that were never engineered and manufactured properly in the first place?? What about the countless insulated glass units that were only partially filled with gas due to calibration issues over this past year?? There are also hundreds if not thousands of patio doors installed that do not have adjustable fixed panels and thus bleed air like crazy and the vinyl extrusions on the 3-lites do not even have a screen receiver J-channel, rendering the screens worthless.
The claims of the existing Schuco products just changing hands are completely false! The In-line sliders have been plagued with air and water leakage problems and I can all but guaranty that they will no longer be manufactured... so how can a warranty cover them in custom sizes? The greatest strength of the Schuco product lines were their TPS glasspacks. It's my understanding that Four Seasons will not offer TPS as they have direct corporate affiliation with Cardinal Glass utilizing the Conservaglass system designed for them utilizing XLedge. It appears that the Bystronic TPS equipment is being sold off to another company in Florida that was buying units from Schuco for Hurricane Zone approval.
So now you have a company that is NOT buying the Schuco brand, just rights to their extrusions made by yet another company, getting rid of TPS, eliminating some of the Schuco lines, and potentially having NO responsibility to warrant Schuco products as they are not buying Schuco... just their machinery and ideas. Odds are that they will not even occupy the same plant in CT and will more than likely just cannibalize the equipment and bring it to the Four Seasons plant in NY. An identical replacement product would have to be ordered through numerous companies. Four Seasons already has over 300 dealers and a dozen of their own franchises selling directly to homeowners nationwide and unlike Schuco, they do protect territories. If allowed in a territory, a Schuco dealer would now have to become a Four Seasons sunroom dealer or franchise to sell a lessor product for more money.
I can assure you that Schuco's legal problems are just beginning. What kills me more than anything is that Schuco intentionally kept the sell-off a secret from dealers until the week before Christmas. They allowed dealers to jeopardize their reputations and the financial security of thier client's investments. It's my understanding that they are still accepting new orders but demanding pre-payment... go figure. Eight week lead time for simple, white double hungs, knowing Schuco, that will be more like 10-12 if they show up at all before the operations close.
I had 5 signed contracts for Schuco products and I opted to give my customers the choice and full disclosure. All 5 have chosen another route, whether it be a full refund or product substitution.
I must agree with the many others here. Dealers and consumers BEWARE! Stay tuned for future developments as I have already heard from many dealers and homeowners that are deeply concerned and are seeking similar complaintants. I have probably been one of the biggest Schuco promoters and my last 7 calls and emails have not been responded to.
Time will tell.. wait and see.
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windowmannjny
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:18 pm
starting to sound as if all those consumers doing all of their extensive research just got screwed by a manufacturer that for all intensive purposes went out of business. granted they got a great window but no future service. i am sure in a matter of months you will read on this board how there is a "new" window out there that blows away all other windows and schuco will just be a fond memory we will chuckle about and then beat up as if were a mid-range window at best.
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windowfairy
All's well that ends well...
Another tidbit is that Four Seasons will be changing the color or the vinyl. They are in negotiations with Royal, (Schuco's supplier) and the plan is to make most of the the former line, minus the in-line sliders and patio doors, however, FS is opting for a whiter white opposed to the former blueish white.
Furtermore, the gas retention/fill issue is the tip of a very large iceberg. All of Schuco's literature boasted of 99.9% gas filled and via excellerated testing the gas was to remain in the unit for some time. There was evena letter from an unknown testing lab printed in their brochure.
Hoo wee!
The odds of service parts are zero!
Can anyone say Class Action Lawsuit?
Well, you reap what you sow....
Furtermore, the gas retention/fill issue is the tip of a very large iceberg. All of Schuco's literature boasted of 99.9% gas filled and via excellerated testing the gas was to remain in the unit for some time. There was evena letter from an unknown testing lab printed in their brochure.
Hoo wee!
The odds of service parts are zero!
Can anyone say Class Action Lawsuit?
Well, you reap what you sow....
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insiderinfo
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:37 am
Now, for more interesting information that Schuco never told you about. Schuco is actually a subsidiary of a much larger German company called "OTTO FUCHS". Otto Fuchs lists SCHUCO International as a subsidiary specializing in "Aluminum" building components. You can view this info @http://www.otto-fuchs.com/index.php?id=3&L=1.
I wonder if Schuco used Otto Fuchs sales numbers when telling you about their huge multi billion dollar business?
I wonder if Schuco used Otto Fuchs sales numbers when telling you about their huge multi billion dollar business?
Last edited by insiderinfo on Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Skydawggy.
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Reply
FenEx wrote:So, it would then be accurate to say that we have been Fuched?
Last edited by Skydawggy. on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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windowfairy
Schuco’s claim was they are a 3 billion dollar Deutschmark company, whatever that means.
Apparently Four Season reasoning for changing to a different color white is to match their Sunrooms.
I find it bizarre that some people are making light of these events. FenEx pretty much nailed it when he said their legal problems are just beginning. Replacement parts are going to be about as common as Hen’s teeth. The sale is noting but a way for them to stop the hemorrhaging of red ink. Since their tenure began in the US they have NEVER shown a profit. The first 3 years that’s to be expected, perhaps even five years, but get this; their fiscal goal for 2007 was to ONLY loose $800,000! Last year their losses are estimated at just under $5 Million.
Onto the DOE new mandates on Energy Star windows. Word on the street and from several engineers is the announcement will be made official sometime in March of this year that by the end of 2009 windows will have to meet a .22 to .24 U-Value to receive the Energy Star. It’s about time!
Manufactures are up in arms because they claim it’s too short notice, the cost to great and the minimum unfair. Boo Hoo! There is still some haggling as to Climate Zones, there were to be four, then three now there’s talk of only two a Northern and Southern.
So if you’re selling a triple glass window that’s at least .22 or better, you have nothing to worry about.
Apparently Four Season reasoning for changing to a different color white is to match their Sunrooms.
I find it bizarre that some people are making light of these events. FenEx pretty much nailed it when he said their legal problems are just beginning. Replacement parts are going to be about as common as Hen’s teeth. The sale is noting but a way for them to stop the hemorrhaging of red ink. Since their tenure began in the US they have NEVER shown a profit. The first 3 years that’s to be expected, perhaps even five years, but get this; their fiscal goal for 2007 was to ONLY loose $800,000! Last year their losses are estimated at just under $5 Million.
Onto the DOE new mandates on Energy Star windows. Word on the street and from several engineers is the announcement will be made official sometime in March of this year that by the end of 2009 windows will have to meet a .22 to .24 U-Value to receive the Energy Star. It’s about time!
Manufactures are up in arms because they claim it’s too short notice, the cost to great and the minimum unfair. Boo Hoo! There is still some haggling as to Climate Zones, there were to be four, then three now there’s talk of only two a Northern and Southern.
So if you’re selling a triple glass window that’s at least .22 or better, you have nothing to worry about.
Last edited by windowfairy on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pbiancardi
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:05 am
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Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1548
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
Your other 2 windows (I mis-measured):oops: are in and ready for installation.pbiancardi wrote:Well I just had Schuco installed about 3 weeks ago, where does that leave me?
In fact I am still missing (2) windows which were measured wrong...
What is the deal with gas leaking or not being filled properly? My dealer (a very reputable person who posts here) never told me anything about this....
I just sent you an email filling you in on the rest.
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windowmann2000
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:16 pm