Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
Does anybody know the Marvin Ultimate air infiltration rating? I don't see it listed on their site; should I assume it's 0.3? If it is 0.3 then what is the most energy efficient wood window available?
- TheWindowNerd
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
do not assume. If it is .30 then it would not be one of the best, both Pella and Andersen would have lower AI.
- Windows on Washington
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
0.30 is just the to not exceed number and certainly not the best.
You will need to call Marvin's architectural department to get the actual test data/report to see the specific number.
You will need to call Marvin's architectural department to get the actual test data/report to see the specific number.
Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
For wood windows the most efficient is from Drewexim. R-7, AL=0, RAL certified. http://www.drewexim.com.
The Lincoln clad double hung has an AL of 0.01 but can not come close to even an R-4. The Eagle would be next in line for American products but I am not a fan of there DH sill. Still years behind the Europeans. Peachtree 700 series 0.22, etc... for casements the std is less than or equal to 0.01. There are many products that I am unfamiliar with so I only mention ones obtainable in my area.
I would consider any double hung of 0.10 or less to be a good window and Marvin is definately on the list of good windows. Pretty impressive that several wood double hungs can achieve better AL than the vinyls touted here on the board as being air tight. The vinyls AL will begin to deteriorate from day 1 after install, even with the best install.
The Lincoln clad double hung has an AL of 0.01 but can not come close to even an R-4. The Eagle would be next in line for American products but I am not a fan of there DH sill. Still years behind the Europeans. Peachtree 700 series 0.22, etc... for casements the std is less than or equal to 0.01. There are many products that I am unfamiliar with so I only mention ones obtainable in my area.
I would consider any double hung of 0.10 or less to be a good window and Marvin is definately on the list of good windows. Pretty impressive that several wood double hungs can achieve better AL than the vinyls touted here on the board as being air tight. The vinyls AL will begin to deteriorate from day 1 after install, even with the best install.
- TheWindowNerd
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
J Scott- Is it true that all AI numbers will degenerate over time through the operational cyles?
- Windows on Washington
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
Better than what windows quoted as tight? Most of the vinyl offerings that are quoted as tight on here are 0.02 or less.JScott wrote: I would consider any double hung of 0.10 or less to be a good window and Marvin is definately on the list of good windows. Pretty impressive that several wood double hungs can achieve better AL than the vinyls touted here on the board as being air tight. The vinyls AL will begin to deteriorate from day 1 after install, even with the best install.
The Air Infiltration deterioration with time is an often quoted concept. Do you have any test studies that illustrate this concept and demonstrate how a vinyl window will loose Air Infiltration performance at a much more rapid rate that other window materials.
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
I'd like to see those test results also. I'll file them right next to the results showing a 40% savings on utilities.
Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
Unfortunately testing has not been performed and testing would not include the environmental conditions of every area or condition. Consumer reports has made a brief accessment and as professionals with years of experience we have often heard complaints from customers that when the windows were new they were fine but over time they have become drafty. Installation is a variable as well and may contribute to more inconclusive evidence of deterioration. Gorell 5300 has a reported 0.10 I believe so WOW most units discussed as being good do not have AL less than 0.02 initially. I hope this clarifys some insanity because I was unable to beam up Spock for a logical explanation so I offer the above explanation. If you cut through the crap you will see that I pointed out that I feel that any window with a 0.10 or less AL would be considered a good window. Will mahogany be a better product than pine? Beats the hell out of me. Weatherstripping wears out over time, etc........Vinyl is a thermoplastic material so I believe it is relative that it is more effected by enviromental changes and who has not come across a wood door that sticks when it has rained for some time and the moisture content has increased; however, wood doors usually have a 1 year tolerance for bowing by every manufacture before they will replace the slab under warranty and then only if the bow is greater than 1/4". Who has not observed the air complaints of wood windows due to operation which will wear down the fibers through the years but more so, those vinyl compression liners which always leak air over time but way sooner than wood double hungs without the vinyl jamb liners and who does not see through experience that western, southern and south western exposed windows are more prone to increased AL.
Even if I did have those test results the Vinyl Institute would fund 6 scientists to disprove them so that the information would become clouded and inconclusive.
Even if I did have those test results the Vinyl Institute would fund 6 scientists to disprove them so that the information would become clouded and inconclusive.
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
Only during LEED certification do they run the tests that you are speaking of specific to environment. Go to Marvin's website under professionals and you can pull the ADM for any product. You will always getting a tighter seal on a casement then a DH.
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
So basically you are citing Consumer Reports as your authority and claiming that even if you actually conducted your own testing that the Vinyl institute would refute your findings?
Well, my scientific research shows that 80% of the windows we remove and replace are wood windows. The most common reason given for replacing them is high air infiltration.
Well, my scientific research shows that 80% of the windows we remove and replace are wood windows. The most common reason given for replacing them is high air infiltration.
Last edited by Skydawggy. on Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
- HomeSealed
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Re: Marvin Ultimate AI rating/ Most energy efficient wood window
We sell and install vinyl, wood, and fiberglass products. They each have their pros and cons, that's a fact. For performance, vinyl windows are superior in in nearly every written and observable aspect. This is documented in ratings, and observed in the experience of most installers and consumers. I would be nuts to try and sell a vinyl window over wood based on richness and beauty, and it is equally as crazy to try and sell a wood or fg window over vinyl based on air leakage. If there is any argument to be made, it would be the degree to which these differences effect overall home performance in regard to energy-savings and comfort.