Alside Challenger 8000 Limited Edition Series with R-Shield

[laidbackman56]

I am getting estimates for 15 replacement windows. A CVS Windows and Siding (Custom Vinyl Systems) rep gave me a quotes on the Alside Challenger 8000 Limited Edition Series double hung windows. The best window of this series he demonstrated to me was the double hung window with (from brochure) a full 4.5" frame design with 15 cavities, 1" double pane glass, Polyiscyanurate Insulate Frame (graph showing R- Value 25.00), a rigid fiberglass support, foam filled, solid sill technology, with the optional "Exclusive" R-Shield Glass (which he demonstrated to have only a 5.0 BTU loss transfer). The quote for the 15 windows was in the same ballpark as the quotes I received from other manufacturer window sales reps for the midrange quality windows. I am a novice in regards to vinyl replacement windows. The design of this window looks impressive to me. Who has had experience with this window model? Who has had any experience having windows purchased from and installed by CVS Windows and Siding? I live in western PA about an hour north of Pittsburgh. Please recommend any window companies in this area that have excellent customer reviews and product ratings.

[Windows on Washington]

The 8000 is one of the better offerings inside their line but is just average when you compare it to other windows.

I would suggest that you take a look at some other brands to get a competitive product offerings. While the stuff you listed off sounds great, the air infiltration number is average, thermal data is average and the window is just...average.

[laidbackman56]

Thank you for the information. I have been getting other quotes for windows. Some higher and one lower.

[Windows on Washington]

There is good marketing in that window but a marketing company does not equal a good window.

Look critically at the total unit U-Factor and other items like VT, SHGC, DP, and air infiltration.

[HomeSealed]

There is good marketing in that window but a marketing company does not equal a good window.

Look critically at the total unit U-Factor and other items like VT, SHGC, DP, and air infiltration.

Exactly.... All of that stuff that the sales guy spoke about sounds great, but the thermal and structural ratings are the true sum of those parts. They tell you how the window will actually perform, and indicate the quality of design and build. The fanciest features in the world mean nothing if they don't improve how the unit will actually perform.

[laidbackman56]

THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION TO BE ASKED ABOUT A WINDOW'S ACTUAL PERFORMANCE.

[laidbackman56]

Please explain what the following terms (abbreviations) mean in terms of vinyl window performance:
U-factor
VT
SHGC
DP rating
air infiltration
(is this the same as air leakage?)

[masterext]

Ufactor- how much heat escapes through the whole window.. the lower the number the better. we recommend .28 or lower on double
solar heat gain coefficient- how much passive heat gain comes into your home..depends on the climate. generaly speaking, on double pane a .25 - .31 is a good range in a northeastern climate.
DP ( design pressure) structural rating . the higher the better.. we like to see 50 or higher without a pocket sill design.
air leakage/ air infiltration- very important. amount of air that gets to the inside of the window..the lower, the better. all operable windows will leak some air but some much more than others. we like to see a . 07 or lower on a double hung.

[laidbackman56]

I previously wrote (edited content):
"I am getting estimates for 15 replacement vinyl windows (now 17 windows) quotes on the Alside 8000 Series Challenger Limited Edition double hung window - model illustrated (from contractor's exclusive brochure) is a full 4.5" frame design with 15 cavities, 1" double pane glass, Polyiscyanurate Insulate Frame, a rigid fiberglass horizontal sash support, foam filled (exterior cavities and sashes), solid sill technology, with the optional "Exclusive" R-Shield Glass (which was demonstrated to have only a 5.0 BTU loss transfer). The quote for the windows in the same ballpark as the quotes I received from other manufacturer window sales reps for the midrange quality windows. The design of this window looks impressive to me."

I have learned that this is a window customized and labeled for the particular contractor. It is very similar in design to the Alside Ultramax but with some differences and window upgrades. For example, the Ultramax uses a metal reinforced horizontal sash support as opposed to the fiberglass sash support. Not all of the windows I have been considering have a reinforced sash or have a type of foam fill (as a standard). The glass coating upgrade is difficult to know exactly what it is equivalent to however a rep at an Alside supply center assured me that the R-Shield glass would improve this window's thermal performance.

I will be getting estimates this week on Okna windows, HiMark, Polaris ThermaWeld, UltraWeld, Soft-lite. The advantage that the Alside window contractor I am dealing with has an office in my town (and in other locations) and has a very good reputation here. Some of the other reps closest offices are about 55 miles away. I wonder if this would impact the time frame for any needed service calls.

However, whatever decision I make to replace 17 windows, I have learned thru this website to ask and obtain particular information, do my own research, get a number of competitive quotes from good window manufacturers, and avoid the entry level window products being offered since I do not want to have to be concerned with replacing these windows in my house again for many years (I am 55 years old and retired). This has been a positive experience for me.

[masterext]

why alside when there are so many higher quality windows? did you know the alside ultramaxx uses a pocket sill design? that means water drains through the frame and then relies on weep holes for drainage. this is a flawed design. what happens when the weep holes clog; how do you unclog them? you cant.
alsides frame is also very bulky and you lose quite a bit of glass. as for reinforcement, alside uses a conductive metal opposed to a composite reinforcement(non metal ) that higher quality brands utilize.
if you ever look at lower quality vinyl windows, you will notice black gunk built up in the corners of each side of the sill. thats a pocket sill or snap in sloped sill where weep holes are clogged.
you want a welded sloped sill.

[laidbackman56]

If clogging of the weep holes is a very common problem with the pocket sill design that can lead to water build-up and freezing, then why do manufacturers feature the design in their window sales presentation? With so many windows brands and models to choose from, which windows feature a solid sloped sill of the following brands - Okna, HiMark, Polaris, Soft-lite, Energy Xtreme?

[TheWindowNerd]

I think all.
I know for sure OKna, HiMark, and Soft-lite.

[HomeSealed]

Those all feature a welded, sloped-sill, and in fact the vast majority of newer design do as well. As mentioned above, the pocket sill design is fraught with problems. It is a way for lower grade products to improve their structural performance ratings, however it does so at the expense of potential issues. There are documented cases of clogged weep holes that lead to retained water inside the frame. If you live in a cold climate, that water can freeze, crack the frame, and leak into your wall. You may not even know it until you see water stains on the drywall a year later, after the damage has already been done. Obviously, this does not occur with regularity, but why take the chance when there are improved designs that get better numbers and eliminate that concern? Its like choosing a carburetor over fuel injection... On "why" they brag about it in their sales presentations, it is because they are salesmen, and they are going to try and make it seem like every attribute of their window is the best. It is incumbent upon you as a consumer to research these claims and separate what is real and what is not... That is why you are here!
If you choose a solid company, the distance will have no effect on the quality of service that you receive. It is conceivable that you could get far better service from a company that is an hour a way than you would from one around the corner. It all depends on how much a given company values their customers.

[masterext]

another major reason alside and other companies that produce lower quality windows choose pocket or snap in slope sills.is because its much cheaper than a true welded sloped sill.
a pocket sill uses 4 of the same extrusions whereas a welded sloped utilizes 3 same and a different extrusion for the sill. this requires additional tooling as well as more time on the production line. companies focused on producing a window at a low cost are reluctant to spend the additional money for new tooling.
another thing the higher end companies do is design their welded sloped sills in such a way that they dont ever become concave to where puddling can occur. again, higher end companies pay close attention to design details. i have seen a few low end companies change to welded sloped but they were ridiculously flimsy. still, better than a pocket though.

[Windows on Washington]

+1 to both HomeSealed and mastext comments and feedback.