Window decision -serious or not?

[cajoler]

I'm trying to make a decision on which windows to purchase and I'm trying to get feedback on Serious Windows. They have good ratings: u-factor= .19, shgc=.26, vt=47, ai=.02, are filled with krypton and are coming in the cheapest, the installer has been in business over 20 years and has only A ratings on Angie's List.

Any reason why I shouldn't buy these? It seems experts on this board recommend OKNA and Soft-lite and I got quotes from these dealers but their window ratings are not as high and are more expensive, but not by much.

What do you window insiders know about Serious Windows that I don't?

The quote said that the windows would be inserts. Is that different from other types of replacement windows?

Thanks for any insight.

[TheWindowNerd]

The thermal and structural numbers look great.
An insert is a type of window and or a type of installation. The insert window is designed to fit inside of a 3 1/4" sash pocket of an existing window. An insert installation contrasted to a full tear/full frame replacement, insert= the existing frame is left in place and the new smaller unit is inserted inside that existing frame. A full tear/full frame is removeing the existing frame down to the RO and installing a full size unit typically with jamb extensions and interior casing. Both methods and type of product can be an excellent choice you just need to figure out the best choice for you.

[Windows on Washington]

Are those data numbers on just the glass or on the entire unit?

The reason that I ask is that the VT and SHGC numbers seem a bit high for a triple pane window unless they are running one of the higher SHGC specified coatings. I am sure that would have been detailed out it they were.

The U-Factor is decent and is what you can get out of pretty standard, good performing, triple pane argon windows (Total unit and not just the glass).

[cajoler]

I'm not sure if the rating is just the glass or the entire unit. I got those numbers off the nfrc site. I went to their website and the information I got was: 501 Series: uf0.19 rvalue 5.3 sghc 0.26 vt 0.47 SeriousGlass 8 Dual Pane, 1 Low SHG Film Krypton

So this is a double pane window, not a triple pane window I believe.

Which is better: an insert or a full frame replacement? On the website it says the window is "full frame"? Will the full frame replacement offer better insulation than an insert? Or is it better to disturb the original construction as little as possible? I live in the midwest.

I'd rather pay the $200 dollars now for a full tear replacement rather than deal with leakage issues in the future.

Thanks again for your insight.

[TheWindowNerd]

My opinion is that full tear/full frame almost always offers the best outcome.
Again let me say that both methods are valid and either can be the best choice depending on the situation.

[Windows on Washington]

Insert windows, if done properly, are not more likely to leak than a full tear outs.

I have seen more full tear outs done improperly lately and there are some applications where full tear outs are just not recommended.

Can you post up that CPD# or hyperlink to the thermal data that you found. I would like to see what glass package and formulation they are using.

[cajoler]

The CPD number is SER-M-62-00004-00001. I got the ai number from the installer. The nfrc site says it has 3 panes but the brochure says it is a dual pane window. Does the shg film count as a pane? It is part of their 501 line. I appreciate your time and efforts.

[Windows on Washington]

NFRC is correct in this case and you will need to clarify which glass package you are being quoted.

At that level (i.e. U-0.19), there are quite a few windows that have that type of data in a triple pane format with less exotic (i.e. argon instead of krypton) fills.

Krypton is not cheap right now and I guarantee that number will go up if they were planning on a double pane quote.

If the film you are referring to is a heat mirror layer, that would be considered 3 layer glass.

[HomeSealed]

+1 on inserts vs tear-outs. Both are very valid options and each has their pros and cons. Inserts are a nice cost-saving option when glass loss is not a major concern and the existing frames are in good shape structurally. The vast majority of windows installed in remodel applications are installed in this manner.
On the Serious window, if you think that it outperforms the Okna and Softlite options, then you are not comparing apples to apples. The higher lines of both Okna and Softlite achieve a .01 AI rating, and .19 on the U-value with triple pane and argon, and down into the .15-.16 range with krypton... The confusion on double vs triple pane is because the Serious product uses Heat Mirror, which is a film between the two panes of glass. Its cost is very comparable to triple pane and considered "triple" as WoW mentioned. It is a cool concept that offers some nice performance, although there have been some durability issues in the past. The "pro-heat mirror" crowd will certainly disagree with that, however there is a reason why it has never become more than a niche offering IMO, and even more telling is the fact that it is not offered by the companies that are generally considered the top choices for quality and performance. Overall, that product does offer some good performance numbers, however most of the concern surrounding it has to do with the controversial history of the company. I would definitely suggest some vetting in that regard if you are seriously (pardon the pun) considering that option.

[uncle eddie]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... y-is-a-BFD
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/ ... s-trouble/
http://www.sfgate.com/business/bottomli ... 694616.php
http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/1123001/ ... sagree.pdf
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/serious-energy

Quite a rap sheet.

[cajoler]

Thanks for the links. That was one type of insider information I was looking for. Makes the lifetime warranty more questionable. Reminded me of the troubles that Arbusto Energy had.

[HomeSealed]

It looks as though you can purchase their assets at auction coming up in a few days: http://www.heathindustrial.com/assets-o ... us-energy/
... If you are worried about warranty service, just buy the machinery to make new parts!

[Windows on Washington]

I have heard rumblings of this. They are soon to be extinct.

I am sorry to see this for the same reasons that I don't want to see any other American without employment. At the risk turning this into a political discussion, this company received considerable moneys from the Federal government. The proximity of Serious executives and the current administration was as close as the other side of the bed. Never a good idea to try to maintain impartiality.

Another unfortunate example of the Federal government artificially modifying the life-cycle of a given company. They should have been allowed to fail long ago if they could not effectively compete.

[cajoler]

Is the company going out of business altogether or just selling off assets from the Chicago factory that was already closed?

[uncle eddie]

They are soon to be extinct.

that comment along with the evidence provided from multiple sources would seemingly answer that question.