Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

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Watchdog
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:44 pm

Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#1 Post by Watchdog » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:58 pm

Hello! We're assessing replacement window options for our 1958 Daytona Beach coastal home, which still has the original aluminum, single-pane windows. An installer offered us the option of purchasing Simonton 9800 Series vinyl windows with laminated impact glass. Coming at a significantly lower cost than any other storm windows we priced, this option would apparently offer us something like a Category 4 hurricane protection, we were told. These windows lack official hurricane code approval, so we could be sure we had cut plywood and Plylox clips (or something similar) to demonstrate that we have plans for shuttering, just to meet Florida's current requirements. But this installer said plywood would probably not be necessary in the event of a storm.

Anyone out there who can provide us with a perspective on this? Thank you so much! Buying windows has turned out to be so difficult -- there's very little unbiased information out there. I'm so thankful for this site, and for any information that can be provided here. Thank you!

masterext
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Re: Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#2 Post by masterext » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:50 pm

If you choose the 9800, be sure to get sash reinforcement.
That said, look at the Gorell 5400 with Armor Glass plus, its a better window.

Window4U (IL)
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Re: Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#3 Post by Window4U (IL) » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:30 pm

I would suggest the Simonton Stormbreaker series instead of the 9800. I wonder why they are not suggesting this for you?

http://www.simonton.com/List/Windows/Co ... ker%20Plus#

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#4 Post by Windows on Washington » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:42 am

Daytona Beach....I will be there in 10 day visiting the family.

In Florida, those markets tend to be dominated by the Simonton Stormbreaker series and PGT.

Oberon
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Re: Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#5 Post by Oberon » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:19 am

Watchdog wrote:Hello! We're assessing replacement window options for our 1958 Daytona Beach coastal home, which still has the original aluminum, single-pane windows. An installer offered us the option of purchasing Simonton 9800 Series vinyl windows with laminated impact glass. Coming at a significantly lower cost than any other storm windows we priced, this option would apparently offer us something like a Category 4 hurricane protection, we were told. These windows lack official hurricane code approval, so we could be sure we had cut plywood and Plylox clips (or something similar) to demonstrate that we have plans for shuttering, just to meet Florida's current requirements. But this installer said plywood would probably not be necessary in the event of a storm.

Anyone out there who can provide us with a perspective on this? Thank you so much! Buying windows has turned out to be so difficult -- there's very little unbiased information out there. I'm so thankful for this site, and for any information that can be provided here. Thank you!
Question number one for the installer - why do these windows lack official hurricane code approval ?

Questions number two and three for the installer - is Simonton selling these units as impact/hurricane resistant? If not, then why not?

Question number four for the installer - is Simonton manufacturing these windows with laminated impact glass or is someone else modifying the window by removing the original non-impact glass and replacing it with laminated glass? (yes, it does happen)

Questions number five and six for the installer - what is laminated impact glass and how do I know these windows have it if they aren't marked in any way to indicate that they do?

If you actually ask the installer any or all of these questions, it would be really interested to hear what he/she had to say.


Good luck

Bill
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Re: Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#6 Post by Bill » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:22 am

The laminate available in the 9800 is .060 and marketed as a sound and security upgrade. The addition of this glass would certainly provide an increased level of protection during a storm.

If you go this route spend a little extra and order the High TL 9800 double hung as in high tilt latch. This is the same impact tilt latch that is used on the Storm Breaker Window. The addition of this tilt latch also allows the DP rating to be upgraded to DP65 with sash reinforcement.

Simonton does not promote in anyway the 9800 with the listed features as a hurricane impact product but if it was summited for testing I would guess it would certify for missile B ( small missile)

I would also get pricing on the Storm Breaker Plus for comparison.

Watchdog
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Re: Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#7 Post by Watchdog » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:47 pm

Thanks so much to everyone for the responses. I greatly appreciate it.

Sorry I didn't provide more detail in my initial question -- I didn't want it to be too long.

We have received five different estimates for Florida-approved storm windows, including the Simonton Stormbreaker. (The installer who proposed the 9800 also gave estimates for the Stormbreakers.) The numbers are high, as you all know. Our house is a bit of a fixer-upper with many repairs that must be made. We have allocated some money for house work to spend in 2013, and we've had to weigh the benefits of immediately replacing windows with storm glass against the fact that doing so would just about eliminate our home improvement budget for the year. We must also take into account the fact that we live in a middle-class neighborhood, and most of the houses in our immediate area do not have storm glass. Many have older shuttering systems, and many still have the original old aluminum, single-pane windows. We won't stay in this house forever and we worry about an investment that large.

The 9800 series windows are much less expensive than any Florida-approved storm windows. The price is more sensible for our budget and our neighborhood. The installer who suggested them said that it's expensive for window manufacturers to submit for official storm testing in Florida, so Simonton has not taken that route with this window, but installers who know the window and market say that it would stand up to a Category 4 storm. I've heard from other contractors that most of the houses in my neighborhood wouldn't stand up to a much stronger storm than that, good windows or not.

I just don't know whether everything I'm hearing is true! (Though I have no reason to doubt this installer.) I haven't found any official information from Simonton about how these windows might fare in a storm. The installer said the glass is just like the panes in the Stormbreaker windows, but there's no steel bar in the frames. I think we'd probably still board up our windows with plywood if we knew a serious storm were coming our way. I have no idea how we'd describe these windows if we were trying to sell our house -- obviously we couldn't say we had storm windows. So while the price of these windows makes more sense to us, it's still a lot of money, and we want to be sure we spend it well.

I wish there were more information out there. The estimates we get on replacement windows for our modest home are numbers that could purchase a car, but if I were buying a car, I'd have Consumer Reports and all the rest on my side. I'm just thankful to have found this forum, and to everyone who has shared their expertise here and elsewhere on the web.

Bill, thanks for the advice on considering the High TL 9800. The Storm Breaker Plus windows were priced about 40% higher than the 9800 windows quoted to us.

Oberon, thanks for your thoughts. I think I answered your questions in my post. As far as I know these windows are made entirely by Simonton, but I'll double check that.

masterext, I'll check out the Gorell 5400. Any idea on price there?

Again, thanks to all who have responded.

Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Hurricane protection from Simonton 9800 with impact glass?

#8 Post by Bill » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:17 pm

Some of what your installer is telling you is incorrect. The laminate glass the 9800 will come with is not the same as what is in the Storm Breaker. The thickness of the interlayer in the 9800 is .060”, in the Storm Breaker it is .090 and the exterior pane is tempered; for comparison the windshield of your car is .030”

The Storm Breaker is certified hurricane impact for large missile. The .060 lami glass used in the 9800 is the same as what is used in Simonton’s ProFinish Brickmould Safe Point Storm new construction window and is certified for hurricane impact small missile. That is why with the DP rating upgraded I assume the 9800 with .060 lami would pass small missile if it was submitted for testing.

Your contactor is correct that the 9800 will not have the steel reinforcement like the Storm Breaker it will have aluminum reinforcement if you upgrade to DP65 with the high tilt latch.

The only thing official you will get from Simonton is the DP rating that is a measurement of a windows structural strength and ability to withstand water infiltration. The 9800 upgraded to DP65 is the same design pressure as the Storm Breaker therefore they would perform equally for wind and rain but not debris hitting the glass.

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