Did my son get taken on his window upgrade?

[Chrisinhouston]

First of all, I am a pretty well qualified "do it your selfer" who's done a fair amount of home upgrades and remodeling successfully. We live in Houston where summer is hot and humid and where winter can be damp but doesn't usually get below freezing more then a couple of nights most years. I did my own window replacement on my home a few years back, from measurement to installation and am still pretty pleased. I had the usual aluminum framed single pane glass builder windows, we have brick veneer on the lower floor and siding and wood trim on the upper. I chose Pella vinyl as the big box store made me a good deal. I liked the quality of the product and little finishes like small caps to hide the mounting screws. I had windows of various sizes, some single hung, some fixed and some sliders and while I don't have the receipts handy I think I averaged $375-500 per window. Doing it myself gave me the opportunity to fix rotten trim, apply flashing tape where possible and insulate air space in the wall around the window opening.

My son just bought a fairly large home not far from from us (built in the last 10 years) and it had about 60% of the windows replaced by the previous owner. The windows replaced all faced south or west and get full sun which was a real plus. His intention was to replace the rest of the windows at some time for energy savings and esthetics, the builder ones he had were similar to ours.

One evening a salesman knocked at the door and offered to do a dog and pony show on his windows. My son and his wife agreed and by the end had signed up for new windows! I learned long ago not to buy on the spot from a home salesman... as a new parent I once bought a set of encyclopedias and later got sold a Kirby vacuum cleaner that is heavy enough to anchor a ship. I would have thanked him for his sales pitch and done some research and even gotten other sales pitches to compare.

The window company is one that is big in Florida and along the Gulf coast region, I think it was Storm Tight. They ended up buying double hung with full screens on the outside. Not sure if they had any other choices. What got me was when my son told me the price; $17,000 for 12 windows (I think the total included the finance charges and of course all of the labor). I was in shock! The lower front room windows are fairly large, 3' x 6' or so and the upstairs bedrooms are more typical for those rooms and there is one small bathroom window.

The windows got installed last week and I was not impressed. The installers did sloppy work (by my standards) by haphazardly driving screws into the channels to attach the windows to the studs on either side. By haphazardly I mean some screws are straight, some were installed at an angle, some not all the way in and they occasionally chipped the edge of the window channel with the chuck of their drill/screwgun. And the window sales pitch claimed "you could open or close them with one finger." They have 2 windows that I could barely move up or down and seem to bind in the frame! Another big window is inoperable due to a broken spring which the parts to repair have been ordered but still!

Well, my son is not happy and the saleman came out and said the installation was not up to their high standards. He sent out the guy who measured them and I think is in charge of the installers. He felt only 2 windows were too tight and offered to fix that when they get the parts for the broken one. I asked the guy about the screws sticking out and he said that the screw heads show on their windows and tried to defend the installer by saying the wall studs may have been hard to get screws into.

I know there is more than just energy savings to new windows such as increased home value, esthetics, security, wind storm protection and less sound transferred from the outside. I just couldn't sleep nights if I paid that much for windows though.

Any thoughts?

[Randy]

The short answer is yes your son got taken by a high pressure window company, but you already know that. Not sure how helpful it is now to point that out though. He probably already feels bad enough.

As to the installation details, hard to say without seeing it. Based solely on your description, the work sounds a bit sloppy. The plugs you're describing to cover the screw holes are only used where there is a double wall on the sides (outer wall where the screw is holding and inner wall where the plug goes). The windows they installed may not be suitable for plugs.

Insulating the dead air space around your windows was a critical step that is commonly skipped. Good job addressing that.

[Chrisinhouston]

Thanks for the reply. I guess my Pella windows did have the double wall or hollow part in the frame because all of my screws went a half inch or so into the visible part of the window frame before being tight. The caps popped in place and are visible but you really have to look for them. Even if his windows are not designed to hide the screws I would have though they might use ones painted white to match the frame.

Since I did my home's entire job myself I never had any quotes from salesmen to go by and I felt what I paid was reasonable for the product I got and the cost of labor was not part of my job. But I had a hard time imaging that his windows and installation should be 3 times the cost of mine on average. My home installation did take longer as I had 2 window boxes that were poorly built so I rebuilt them and some siding to replace. And I am glad it was autumn and not summer when I did mine!

[Windows on Washington]

Sorry to hear of this. He missed out the best resource in Houston in the guy above you.

[Delaware Mike]

Sounds like an inexperienced crew of subs that doesn't really know or care all that much about tools and craftsmanship regarding their work. Typical experienced window pros that retrofit vinyl windows are very fussy about their drills/impact drivers. I don't even let my helpers touch mine as I know that they don't respect my phillips bits. I typically keep about a dozen new bits unopened in my trailer as all the manufacturers that I utilize provide stainless steel #2 screws which strip out pretty easy if one hits some tough wood or has the angle of the bit incorrectly. Lately I've been utilizing some Milwaukee impact designed 4" #2 bits and I love them.

Virtually every time I remove low-grade existing vinyl windows all the heads of the screws are destroyed from hack installers. Some are so bad that you have to cut them with a reciprocating saw or snap the shaft with large screw driver to break them loose.