New Construction Window Issues

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flatone
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:07 pm

New Construction Window Issues

#1 Post by flatone »

I know that this is a "Replacement Window" forum, but I thought I would get some professional feedback.

I am building a house in Florida and they are installing MI Windows, a vinyl, single hung, insulated glass. Upgrading the windows wasn't an option. My issue is that half of the windows are so out of square that they won't even lock. My complaints ultimately ended up in direct conversation with the window installer. He is claiming that the windows are coming from the factory before the glazing is fully cured and the lower sashes are racked. The problem is... I take out the lower sashes and measure across the diagonals, and they are dead on. He wants to remove the glass from the lower sash and rack the sash frames so they appear to close squarely. Am I crazing in thinking that this is ridiculous?? I can put a tape on the window frames and see that they are 1/4" out of square.

Is it that hard to install a vinyl window squarely?? They are using a level to plumb one side and then level the bottom of the window. I would think you would plumb on side and use a framing square or just check to make sure the sash closes square to square up the rest of the window.

Any thoughts?? or this just the way things are....

Delaware Mike
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: New Construction Window Issues

#2 Post by Delaware Mike »

What we do with regards to welded nailing flange new construction installation after proper sill pan flashing and WRB application is to level the sill upon composite shims (usually corners and center of sill) and check sash to sill dam reveal and meeting rail reveal. The first anchor (exterior) would go in at the bottom corner once level has been established or towards the low side if pluming is needed of the jambs to achieve proper lock operations and meeting rail/side jamb weatherstripping contact. If the window is made incorrectly due to improper glazing, warping, or just has been made out of square one can really chase their tale in circles trying to make things work with the level and reveals. It takes an experienced installer that really take pride in his craft to sometimes work with this kind of scenario. Unfortunately, very few subs in construction care enough to fine tune windows and doors correctly as it takes more time and their employers aren't going to compensate them for it. It's not rocket science, but it absolutely takes more time.

I hate that MI single hung new construction garbage. I have replaced so many of them over the years. I need to shoot a YouTube video of a 3-year old window from MI and it's typical problems and get it on the net someday.

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TheWindowNerd
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Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex

Re: New Construction Window Issues

#3 Post by TheWindowNerd »

It should not be the way it goes.
A single hung should be easier than a double hung as the top is fixed.
There are probably two issues: the install and the product.
Stick to your guns and have them done right.
TheWindowNerd...

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Windows on Washington
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: New Construction Window Issues

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

+1

MI are not well regarded but this sounds like a combination of poor products and a poor install.

masterext
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Location: Window Pro-Serves All of Northern New Jersey. Bergen, Morris, Union, Essex, Passaic, Sussex Counties

Re: New Construction Window Issues

#5 Post by masterext »

This is a very common problem with very low quality products such as MI Windows. Usually guys that install these types of windows are't the type of installer i would ever think of hiring.
You have a combo of a bad window and a bad install, that said, even if the install was good, i am pretty certain you still would have had problems due to the flimsy/weak design of the MI Window.

flatone
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:07 pm

Re: New Construction Window Issues

#6 Post by flatone »

Thanks for all your help.

Guy
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Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: New Construction Window Issues

#7 Post by Guy »

Ok guys, not one of you questioned the installer blaming it on a non cured glazing product. Come on guys I haven't been away from things that long! If you've been to any plant you know that the glazing products set up within 12 hours. Some faster than that. Even the worst window on the market can be installed well if done right. This is just a bad install! I'll bet that they leveled the bottom and sides and nailed four corners of the fins. Then they just had one of the new guys follow up behind them nailing the rest of the fins down. I'll also bet they didn't use one shim to hold the window square. If the window came with Jamb Jacks I'll bank on the fact that they weren't used or the had big gaps. They wouldn't take the time to shim the jacks if they had any clue. New construction SH windows are a no brainer. The big problem is they are usually installed by the framers, not a window professional. That's why so many new houses leak water and air. These are the guys that keep us Pros working every day. Some one has to clean up their mess!

Delaware Mike
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: New Construction Window Issues

#8 Post by Delaware Mike »

Welcome back Guy, been a while. I agree with your assessment. Virtually every door that I see in current new construction around my parts that is installed by the framers is pushed hard to the sheathing against the back of the brick molding even if the wall is out of plumb. This causes all sorts of sealing and swinging open problems for the homeowner if the bottom wasn't kicked in or out to make plumb prior to anchoring. A self employed carpenter wouldn't be in business very long if they didn't understand the basics of carpentry and how to problem solve, yet the new construction builders get away with all of this kind of stuff. It does keep us in business that's for sure.

I've had really good helpers and bad ones. A good foreman will know when he has to go behind and check on his crew's work to address these kinds of issues and educate his guys to help them become better mechanics.

Back to addressing the original poster's question. About all you can do at this point would be to visually check the reveals from the sashes to master frame to a uniform gapping of the weather stripping along with the level and tape rule. Having bad glazing and out of square sashes would be your best scenario at this point if the exterior veneer is already up. To fix the frame that's nailing flange has been anchored wrong isn't going to be easy. I wouldn't expect this from a custom builder unless he subbed out the framing to crew that had some new guys on it like Guy mentioned.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: New Construction Window Issues

#9 Post by Windows on Washington »

Look who peaked out from behind a snow drift... :D :D :D

Like I said Guy, Poor Installation with Poor Product = future customer and unhappy new home buyer.

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