Our first replacement quote... and they're getting pushy

[Rodrigo]

I'd appreciate some advice on my situation. This will be a bit of a ramble, so I apologize in advance.

Our central-Illinois house is built in '87, brick veneer in front, vinyl siding on three sides. Original windows are Hurd, double-hung, double pane, aluminum-clad, stained wood interiors. I don't know if they are low-e, argon, etc. I suspect they are not. The counter balancers on the largest windows (4 @ 36" x 73") are broken, so if you unlock them the top sash will come sliding/crashing down. They are all drafty, but the rear of the house faces west and the double double-hung unit installed there is really bad (73" x 45" - two joined double hung units). All told we have 13 double-hung units There is no haze between the glass in any of them. It is COLD here today: -5 with brutal wind. So we want good windows.

We have one quote from a "home solutions" contractor the next town up the interstate selling a Vista window. The kid was very nice, but spent 3-1/2 hours (!) in our house giving us his pitch. At the end of it the only thing he left was a business card with a few bottom line numbers scribbled on the back. No brochures, no spec sheets, nothing. The demo window looked nice enough, I guess.

We have stained wood trim now, and asked for a quote on a solid vinyl window with simulated wood finish. We got prices for both double & triple pane setups, rubber-coated inserts between the glass, grids between the panes (the house is a colonial), low-e, gas, the works (not tempered though). The 'sale' price on triple pane was $13.8K; double-pane was $10.5K. Sizes: 4 units @ 36 x 73, 7 @ 36 x 52, 1 @ 28 x 37, and the aforementioned double/double unit @ 73 x 45. Nine of the units are on the front of the house where there is a brick veneer. The quote was for pocket replacements all around.

I should offer that I am an above-average DIYer. I installed pocket replacements throughout our old house (90+ years old) myself. My wife's brother is a general contractor in another town; we purchased the windows through him from his lumberyard/supplier (I think they were Crestline??? I don't recall. it was a number of years ago). I can absolutely install pocket replacements myself -- and know I can do so correctly. So as soon as I see these quotes I start thinking of doing it myself. I don't NEED someone to do it for me. The question is simply whether I want to pay them to do so.

Then last night we get a call from the outfit who quoted us -- and when we told him their price was too rich to move on right now they offered to send out the 'marketing guy'. So the deal is that if we will let them use our house as part of their 'marketing package' -- whatever that is -- they can knock a significant amount off the price. The more I think about the more I feel like I'm buying a car. And I'm getting more and more peeved at how little info was left in my hands after the sales guy left.

I understand that good windows with features we're asking cost many hundreds each. I understand I should be willing to spend another hundred (or couple) per unit to have them installed properly by a skilled craftsman -- or be willing to do it myself and live with the consequences.

I've searched this forum for info on Vista and have concluded that the general opinion on them is 'meh'. So I guess my question is simply this: Are Vista windows worth that price? Are there better options for less money?

And I guess the related question is whether it would make sense to try simply repairing the existing windows? Can I replace enough parts/counterbalance assemblies to make these things relatively better?

Any and all input is appreciated.

[Randy]

Vista windows are nothing special and neither is the discounted "marketing" price they shot you. I'd keep looking. Other brands worth considering are Okna or Sunrise in premium vinyl, or Simonton in a mid-grade vinyl.

While some people believe that the only thing that matters at the end of the day is the final price, I just don't like doing business with people who are deceptive. If a company is deceptive to earn your business, they'll certainly not have any reservations about being deceptive thereafter in order to get paid. You can find a fair and reasonable price with an honest and straight-forward company, so why do business with people who play games.

[HomeSealed]

Excellent advice from Randy. Could not have said it better in every regard... How far are you from Chicagoland? One of the most respected and tenured contributors to this site is Window4U, and he operates in IL. Not sure if he would serve your area, but you can click on his "get a quote" button to find out if you are in his service area. Top products, none of those deceptive tactics.

[Windows on Washington]

+1

Only one guy to recommend in Chicago and that is Window4U.

That price for that window is nothing to write home about and while I can appreciate some sort of incentive to close the sale, the idea of the marketing home is a bit too tin man for my taste.

[TheWindowNerd]

In my area you would pay $800 for a 36 x 73 , white premium vinyl insert, simulate wood interior, GBG, half screen, dual pane low e argon with a AI < .05
The two key elements are the product and the install.
You want one of the three best windows available, a key is the < .05 AI
The install if you DIY you save money. Can you buy that same window? Can you finish, cap the exterior?

[Window4U (IL)]

I'd be happy to help Rodrigo, even if it's just advice for the central Illinois market. Yes, my company is up by Chicago but I live in central IL. just like you do and we do a fair bit of business there.
The window offerings are mostly mid-grade stuff in central Illinois and there are very few premium products offered there. Except for a few large companies, most guys use the windows they can buy at the siding and roofing stores that they buy their other products from.
If you want to contact me via the "Get a Quote" service that this site offers (over to the left), let me know the town you live in and I'll add your zip code to my account so that you can contact me via the site.

[Rodrigo]

Update:
So the guy comes to the house last night. He's the guy that comes out to do the final measure, order windows, schedule the installer (he has two small crews), and verifies they can actually make money on the job. I was glad to discover his real role because I had some very specific questions about the installation, capping, etc. He gave me solid answers. Which was nice. Apparently the 'marketing' angle is that he wants to stick a sign in our yard for some period of time in exchange for knocking down the price. Ok. I guess.

After a great deal of discussion he came down around $2500 on the price of the double pane; which puts us in the neighborhood of $8K. So that's an average of under $600 per unit (treating the double unit as two separate)... including exterior stops and capping. There could still be some haggling over grids -- my wife are recalling the discussion differently on which options we might change. Granted, we have a number of sizes which all have different costs, but at that price I'm not sure how they could be making much money at all on us?

I told him I wanted to see some installations of theirs and he gave me the information for a job they just completed in the last few week. I also asked for a contact on an installation they did at least a couple/few years ago; he said he'd call me with that. And he didn't seem the least bit reluctant about giving me the info. So that's encouraging.

I'm a little peeved that I didn't get their best price right out of the gate. I'll go look at the references I get from them. This guy is supremely confident in the quality of their install. I'll be the judge of that; and I know plenty to be able to tell good from bad.

The only softlite dealer also comes from up the road, but that company has been having some well-publicized problems -- financial, legal, etc.

Window4U - I appreciate your offer of advice. We live in Bloomington, a couple hours south of Chicago (I grew up in the south suburbs, Glenwood, which I believe is pretty near you based on some other posts of yours I've read). We are smack in the middle of the state, but my cheesehead uncle likes to tease me by calling our area "southern Illinois". I'll be in touch.

[HomeSealed]

That is not a bad price considering your options (woodgrain, grids, etc), however I'd probably explore what the availability is however on some of the higher end units like the Softlite that you mentioned (preferably Elements), but also Okna and Sunrise. You may be able to get something better in that same range.
If WIndow4U is able to help you, I know that he offers more than one of those lines. Generally speaking, a company that is dedicated to high quality in all facets of their business (products, service, installation, etc) is going to offer a premium product... An "also-ran" window along with cheesy sales tactics and large price drops rarely result in a great experience when all is said and done, no matter how good the deal sounds.

[Windows on Washington]

+1

The pricing is much better. I still don't like the idea of the multiple drops and very flippant approach to discounting.

There are always incentives when it comes to buying decisions and they are both reasonable and part of the buying experience. The random and nearly 25% drop is a bit much when nothing else has changed (i.e. paying cash instead of using financing).

Regardless of the price..$615 for the Vista could be a great price but I would still rather see you get a quote on one of the more highly regarded windows out there (Okna, Sunrise, Soft-Lite).

[TheWindowNerd]

If Dave at Window4U is available to you I would suggest that you consider no other.
He and his team take care of the two most important things. The right product with outstanding installation.

theWindowNerd...