Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

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icewoz
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Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#1 Post by icewoz »

I'm thinking of having some 18 yo vinyl windows replaced with full-frame Marvin Infinity windows.

The vinyl's have leaked air from the day they were put in. I went cheap with an even cheaper installer and am now replacing them because I'm tired of putting plastic on them every winter. I should've went with RBA's but they were out of my price range at the time.

After doing some research and looking at the windows, I like the Infinity brand by Marvin.

I'd like to know what forum members think of Infinity windows used in the Detroit area. Winter can be hard at times (windchills down to -20). Will I still experience air infiltration or am I expecting too much from a window. I feel I shouldn't feel any air coming through or around the window.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks!!!
Steve

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

You did mention that your current window leak a bunch of air.

If that is the case, you might was to revisit your window replacement selection. The window you have settled on has a bit of a history when it comes to air leakage and there are some customer stories that indicate the window leaks a tremendous amount of air.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#3 Post by HomeSealed »

Nice looking, well-built windows, but as WoW alluded to air-tightness is not it's strong suit. We just replaced some Infinites for a homeowner that had them installed by another company in the last year due to excessive air leakage.
For reference, windows are actually independently tested for air leakage. You should be able to get that rating on any product that you are considering, and the top performers are generally under .05cfm.

icewoz
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#4 Post by icewoz »

Hmmm, not what I wanted to hear because I like the window. Although their cfm is claiming .30, Sunrise windows (out of Michigan) are showing .29. Would I be able to tell that much of a difference?

What would be a better window to consider?

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Randy
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#5 Post by Randy »

.30cfm is the industry maximum allowed rate. Marvin is below that, although not by very much. Sunrise is below .05, unless you're looking at their lowest end line - Essentials. Which line of Sunrise were you considering and what is the style (double hung, casement, slider)?

icewoz
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#6 Post by icewoz »

Double-hung, Essentials. Their website (sunrisewindows.com) doesn't give me an option.

This is the description they offer:
Are your windows drafty and difficult to operate? Have the seals failed? And are they requiring more time and money to maintain? Then Essentials by Sunrise Windows has the solution. And best of all, Essentials will be the last window you’ll need to buy as they’re guaranteed for as long as you live in your home.

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Randy
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#7 Post by Randy »

I would stay away from the Essentials. Sunrise's Vanguard or Restorations line would be the ones to consider. You should also look for an Okna dealer as they make some of the premier products in the country.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#8 Post by HomeSealed »

+1. Sunrise is a nice window, and even their base "Sunrise" double hung gets a very good AI rating of .05 or less. I would also recommend AGAINST the Essentials line, although even that line should get better than a .29 AI. Where did you see that rating?

uncle eddie
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#9 Post by uncle eddie »

The Restorations, Okna, and a few others are much better than the Infinity for air leakage. If that is a concern of yours, be advised.

icewoz
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#10 Post by icewoz »

How high of a wind do I need to feel air filtration? I guess I'm confused as to how a company such as Marvin would offer a product that wind blows through? I can see wind blowing at 100 mph maybe permeating the window, or feel air coming in around the framing (I'm doing a full frame, not an insert). Can I feel a difference between a window rated .2 and .05?

icewoz
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#11 Post by icewoz »

What exactly is this table describing?

Infinity
Double Hung

Air tested to psf: 1.57
Water tested to psf: 4.6
DP: 30.08
Certification Ratings: LC-PG30-H
Max Overall Width (in): 48
Max Overall length (in): 96

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HomeSealed
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#12 Post by HomeSealed »

icewoz wrote:How high of a wind do I need to feel air filtration? I guess I'm confused as to how a company such as Marvin would offer a product that wind blows through?
1) Energy loss through air leakage may or not be something that you can feel on a regular basis. That does not mean that air is not leaking however, and therefore energy loss can/will occur.

2) There need not be any wind at all, as PRESSURE and temperature differential will drive air infiltration or exfiltration. Will you see your drapes blowing in the wind? Most times no, but again, there can be fairly a fairly substantial difference nonetheless.
icewoz wrote:Can I feel a difference between a window rated .2 and .05?
That is a significant difference. You may feel some air movement around the seals on a .2 window, but not likely at all on .05. An analysis via thermal cam or blower door/smoke stick however would show a more profound difference assuming all else is equal, and you will see a measurable energy loss between those two, increasing with the number of windows in question.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#13 Post by Windows on Washington »

icewoz wrote:What exactly is this table describing?

Infinity
Double Hung

Air tested to psf: 1.57
Water tested to psf: 4.6
DP: 30.08
Certification Ratings: LC-PG30-H
Max Overall Width (in): 48
Max Overall length (in): 96
Kind of a week window to be honest.

A windows with a DP of 30 is weak.

Air Leakage
Air Leakage (AL) is indicated by an air leakage rating expressed as the equivalent cubic feet of air passing through a square foot of window area (cfm/sq ft). Heat loss and gain occur by infiltration through cracks in the window assembly. The lower the AL, the less air will pass through cracks in the window assembly.

Design Pressure = Performance Grade
The DP rating of a window or door is based on laboratory pressure testing in pounds per square foot or psf. Design pressure requirements can vary as they are based on product location on the building, height of the building, density of buildings, and wind zone designation. The positive DP number is the standard for wind blowing at the building (windward) and the negative DP number represents the vacuum pressure on the opposite side of the building (leeward).

Structural Test Pressure = 1.5 x Design Pressure
Structural is tested at 150% of DP rating. The structural rating of a window is as much about the glass as it is about the frame and sash system. In order to get a higher DP rating the window manufacturer has to consider the thickness and possible heat-strengthening (or tempering) of the glass as well as the use of higher-end hardware and good quality sealants in the frame and sash system.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#14 Post by HomeSealed »

Good stuff from WoW above. Essentially the numbers of that post icewoz , give the size and DP rating. As WoW stated, DP 30 is not very stout. That rating essentially measures deflection of the unit under load, and is a good indicator of the structural integrity of the unit. Most high end vinyl DH's will be DP 50 or higher... Incidentally, that rating shoots a hole in Marvin/Infinity's primary sales pitch which is that fiberglass/ultrex is much stronger than vinyl.

icewoz
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Re: Marvin Infinity Windows Good for Detroit Climate?

#15 Post by icewoz »

HomeSealed wrote:Good stuff from WoW above. Essentially the numbers of that post icewoz , give the size and DP rating. As WoW stated, DP 30 is not very stout. That rating essentially measures deflection of the unit under load, and is a good indicator of the structural integrity of the unit. Most high end vinyl DH's will be DP 50 or higher... Incidentally, that rating shoots a hole in Marvin/Infinity's primary sales pitch which is that fiberglass/ultrex is much stronger than vinyl.
Thanks for the information.

I did get a quote on Soft Lite Elements for $4475 (five double hung windows) which is a bit higher than the Infinity quote, and, only for replacement, not full replacement like Infinity was going to do.

I have Restorations coming out on Monday (Sept. 29th) so I'll see what price I get from them and then probably decide between Elements or Restorations.

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