To Scott
-
windowshopper
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:04 am
To Scott
Thanks for the Gorell dealer number, I spoke to him and set up an appointment and I would like to know how the windows and install went for you. I did not think he would come this far but he does all New England.
gorell info for ws
Overall I'm relatively satisfied with my dealings with the contractor and window. I'd break it down as follows:
Salespitch/owner: on the positive side Phil answers calls and arrives when he says he will (unlike my local Schuco dealer) He's also a reasonablly pleasent (hell he brought us a fresh baked apple pie) knowledgable individual. The windows and installation also occured in a timely fashion when he said they would. On the negative side he didn't seem very flexible in his sales pitch. Despite telling him I'd done my homework on the window and his company he still went into lengthy pitch on the merits of both. He also goes for the hard sell expecting you to sign on the dotted line at the end of the pitch. If you don't, better pricing suddenly materializes.... very annoying IMHO. Also be careful when/if he quotes energy performance. He kept talking about R ratings of R10 and provided literature from the manufacturer that showed with the glass option i received a u value of 0.1 which equals the R10 he claimed. In fact, when the windows arrived the NFRC rating sticker on them showed a U factor of 0.23 which is an R value of 4 and change. If he makes these claims, call him on it and make him back it up/guarentee it.
Installation crew: Very professional, efficient. Appears to my relatively untrained eye to overall be a quality installation. Put in 14 windows in less then a day with no screwing around.
Window itself: Got the 5300 with the 3X pane and krypton. Went with grids and the optional faux wood interior color. As vinyl windows go they look ok. I think they look a little cheesy relative to a real wood window but that's just me... I say that about all vinyl windows I've seen. The windows operate smoothly. As far as energy efficiency... who knows. Haven't had them long enough or had any really cold nights. I did notice in the kids room one morning after the coldest night a small amount of condensation on the inside of the windows at the perimeter of the glass. I was suprised given I thought the window was pretty good quality. May be the use of the much maligned Intercept spacer. Alternatively, just before the switch over to this new board I had posted on this observation. Someone suggested perhaps it was a function of poor insulation in the house itself (possible as old house). Not clear to me why this would contribute. Unfortunately the switch to the new board killed that thread.
Salespitch/owner: on the positive side Phil answers calls and arrives when he says he will (unlike my local Schuco dealer) He's also a reasonablly pleasent (hell he brought us a fresh baked apple pie) knowledgable individual. The windows and installation also occured in a timely fashion when he said they would. On the negative side he didn't seem very flexible in his sales pitch. Despite telling him I'd done my homework on the window and his company he still went into lengthy pitch on the merits of both. He also goes for the hard sell expecting you to sign on the dotted line at the end of the pitch. If you don't, better pricing suddenly materializes.... very annoying IMHO. Also be careful when/if he quotes energy performance. He kept talking about R ratings of R10 and provided literature from the manufacturer that showed with the glass option i received a u value of 0.1 which equals the R10 he claimed. In fact, when the windows arrived the NFRC rating sticker on them showed a U factor of 0.23 which is an R value of 4 and change. If he makes these claims, call him on it and make him back it up/guarentee it.
Installation crew: Very professional, efficient. Appears to my relatively untrained eye to overall be a quality installation. Put in 14 windows in less then a day with no screwing around.
Window itself: Got the 5300 with the 3X pane and krypton. Went with grids and the optional faux wood interior color. As vinyl windows go they look ok. I think they look a little cheesy relative to a real wood window but that's just me... I say that about all vinyl windows I've seen. The windows operate smoothly. As far as energy efficiency... who knows. Haven't had them long enough or had any really cold nights. I did notice in the kids room one morning after the coldest night a small amount of condensation on the inside of the windows at the perimeter of the glass. I was suprised given I thought the window was pretty good quality. May be the use of the much maligned Intercept spacer. Alternatively, just before the switch over to this new board I had posted on this observation. Someone suggested perhaps it was a function of poor insulation in the house itself (possible as old house). Not clear to me why this would contribute. Unfortunately the switch to the new board killed that thread.
-
windowshopper
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:04 am
Gorell info for ws
Thank you I appreciate the info. The Gorell dealer that came to my house also went into a very lengthy sales pitch and hit me with the hard sell also. He had a coupon that I of course had to sign then and there to get the discount that it offered and I wanted to see another brand window before I made up my mind. Even after I explained to him that I did not like to do business that way and that it gave me a bad impression about his company he still kept at it. He dropped his price a few dollars less than $3800.00 on his last offer which speaks for itself. He also made one statement that through my research I know to be untrue and a few others I wonder about. Gorell had given me his name so I wrote them an email and complained about the sales process and they said they would forward my complaint to the dealer and that they never have complaints about the dealer after the installation.
When I spoke to this guy I had mentioned my experience with the other Gorell dealer and made it known how unhappy I was about it. He sent me some reference letters ahead of time and some mention that he did not use high pressure sales tactics, maybe times have changed, some of those letters were a few years old but there were some more recent ones also. I believe you when you say that he did.
I am thinking seriously about calling him before he comes tomorrow and cancelling because if he starts the hard sell I will tell him to leave because at that point I won!t care how low he goes on the price. When you can pull the dropping price routine I feel you tried to take advantage of me with your first offer and I don!t want to deal with someone who tries to take advantage of me. I have a local guy who installed some Alside Excaliburs for someone I work with and he is totally happy with the windows and it was a very good install. The guy(owner) came here and there was no pressure at all. He has not had one BBB complaint in the last three years and I have since found out he is lower than anyone else around here on the price because there are a few dealers in the area that sell and install the Alside Excalibur and all recommend it as a good window. I am sure the Gorell is probably a better window but it will probably cost quite a bit more and I have no desire to go through that type of sales pitch again. It is funny that the 2 Gorell dealers that are in this area use similar tactics, maybe they are under pressure from Gorell, maybe not. I have dealt with sales people from Plygem(Great Lakes) Alside Excalibur, Simonton 5500(wholesaler) Harvey, spoke to someone who sells Accuweld, he gave me prices on the phone because I have the measurements and Gorell and Gorell was the only one that used the high pressure tactics. If their company is so great and it is such a great product that should not be necessary because it would sell itself.
When I spoke to this guy I had mentioned my experience with the other Gorell dealer and made it known how unhappy I was about it. He sent me some reference letters ahead of time and some mention that he did not use high pressure sales tactics, maybe times have changed, some of those letters were a few years old but there were some more recent ones also. I believe you when you say that he did.
I am thinking seriously about calling him before he comes tomorrow and cancelling because if he starts the hard sell I will tell him to leave because at that point I won!t care how low he goes on the price. When you can pull the dropping price routine I feel you tried to take advantage of me with your first offer and I don!t want to deal with someone who tries to take advantage of me. I have a local guy who installed some Alside Excaliburs for someone I work with and he is totally happy with the windows and it was a very good install. The guy(owner) came here and there was no pressure at all. He has not had one BBB complaint in the last three years and I have since found out he is lower than anyone else around here on the price because there are a few dealers in the area that sell and install the Alside Excalibur and all recommend it as a good window. I am sure the Gorell is probably a better window but it will probably cost quite a bit more and I have no desire to go through that type of sales pitch again. It is funny that the 2 Gorell dealers that are in this area use similar tactics, maybe they are under pressure from Gorell, maybe not. I have dealt with sales people from Plygem(Great Lakes) Alside Excalibur, Simonton 5500(wholesaler) Harvey, spoke to someone who sells Accuweld, he gave me prices on the phone because I have the measurements and Gorell and Gorell was the only one that used the high pressure tactics. If their company is so great and it is such a great product that should not be necessary because it would sell itself.
ws
keep in mind you have 2 seperate entities, Gorell the manufacturer and then the contractors who sell their product. They're not one in the same. Gorell is not training or regulating how the contractors that deal their product interact with the consumer (at least I don't think they are).
My unsolicited advice to you is to go through with the presentation. In my experience that was the low point of the whole affair. If you can stomach it, and you get a price you feel is reasonable and you can afford then I think you should be confident that you'll end up with a good window and a good installation (the most important aspects at the end of the day no?)
On a related note, it occured to me that the discrepancy I mentioned about the U factor may be the difference between a center of glass reading vs overall unit. I emailed Gorell to clarify. I suspect I'll hear shortly since my last emailed question was answered quickly and directly by the owner Wayne Gorell (or at least someone using his name)
My unsolicited advice to you is to go through with the presentation. In my experience that was the low point of the whole affair. If you can stomach it, and you get a price you feel is reasonable and you can afford then I think you should be confident that you'll end up with a good window and a good installation (the most important aspects at the end of the day no?)
On a related note, it occured to me that the discrepancy I mentioned about the U factor may be the difference between a center of glass reading vs overall unit. I emailed Gorell to clarify. I suspect I'll hear shortly since my last emailed question was answered quickly and directly by the owner Wayne Gorell (or at least someone using his name)