Metro DC area - aaargh, and your expertise would be valued!

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nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

Metro DC area - aaargh, and your expertise would be valued!

#1 Post by nmmmm »

I’ve posted this message (edited a bit to be current) on another forum, but would really appreciate this forum’s feedback too….

Gosh, WHAT an experience it is dealing with pushy and canned sales pitches... Just obnoxious – who responds to these kinds of tactics favorably??? But anyway....

We have been quoted for Kensington’s Quantum 2 windows as follows:

Double glass, but triple (with that heat shield) pane, single sliders, plain open glass (no decoration) and R10.

2 x 81 united inches
3 x 106 united inches
3 x 120 united inches
1 x 5 foot patio door **
1 x 6 foot patio door

**Plus construction necessary to convert a 60x60 window into a patio door hole - a $3100 charge??? The $3,100 to make the 23 x 60 inch opening below the existing 60x60 window (which we are replacing with a patio door) is what sounds particularly egregious to us!

Total quote (all included) was $14,450. (This dropped down to $13,100 after my “firstâ€Â￾ grumble about the pricing and charge to make a hole.)

We did like the product, BUT….. The sales person was pushy (sign today to get this price) so we did to end the hassle and just in case it really was a good price. We knew we had three days to cancel of course.

And of course we are just doing things backwards and are now comparing other products to this one we have “signedâ€Â￾ and WILL cancel the order (within 3 days) if we note this is an over the top cost for what they are supplying or are not confident it is a good price.

The "sign today" and “let me call my managerâ€Â￾ (while the manager is clearly screaming at the sales person "this is the last day we have this offer", and the sales person knows we can hear this) shenanigans are really off-putting I can tell you! Really out dated and obnoxious... But we'll put up with it (though won't use them for any of our other remodeling projects) if the product ends up being good value comparative to other products. We are comparing it with the Schuco windows right now.

Good Grief! What an experience! Four (yes FOUR!!!) hours of sales pitch!

We are getting quotes from others, and are interested in Schuco quotes also. We are in the Metro DC area and looking for good installers/dealers.

So if there are any window folks in our area who would like to submit a bid with a similar (or better?) quality window (we won't be in this home for that long so we are looking for value in terms of resale) and can offer good value for our needs, we'd be glad to hear from you.

I'm particularly curious to know how much others will charge to turn our 5X5 window into a 5 foot patio door hole...

Thanks so much for listening to my rant - I just was floored that such sales tactics exist in this day and age - not to mention just thoroughly annoyed by them....

PS. If anyone has any thoughts on which is a better value, the Quantum2 or the Schuco 4000, we'd be so grateful for your input. We don't necessarily need to compare apples with apples - just good value and a quality product with good installers...

As we intend to move in a few years a "lifetime" guarantee isn't a selling point for us (or necessarily a selling point for a buyer of our home), as the new owners may well not like our choice and want to remodel the home again anyway!
Last edited by nmmmm on Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Dean S
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:36 am

#2 Post by Dean S »

Not all companies operate this way. I sell replacement windows and hear these stories all the time.

You should tell the person on the phone when you're making the appointment that you'll only sit for two hours, will not sign on the first day and don't want the salesman to call the manager for phony price drops. If they cannot abide you should not make the appointment. Some companies have a more honest approach and will welcome your call.

Beware when they say both spouses must be home for the presentation. That means you can't give the "I have to talk to my spouse" excuse.

Cancel the contract and find a better company.

nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

I appreciate the tip on how to set things up "before&am

#3 Post by nmmmm »

I will certainly know to do this as we get other bids.

I guess I should have done some research "before" asking a company to come out and give us an estimate - we just didn't (in our wildest dreams) imagine this kind of thing happened in 2005!

I'm reminded of those films like Tin Men, and Glengarry Glenross!

Certainly a lesson well learned (and a story to share with all my friends and colleagues <grin>)

I'd say this kind of sales tactic surely would have died out by now when people do share bad experiences with one another... You can bet that nobody in our old neighborhood will be using this company when they all replace their windows now that I have our story to share with them (we are all starting to replace our windows and share information <g>)

Thanks again for allowing me to get this off my ches -- grrrrr :)

Dean S
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:36 am

#4 Post by Dean S »

It's not your fault that you unwittingly had a Tin Man over for a sales call. However, at the two hour mark you should have thrown him out.

I went to a home the day after one of these guys stayed for over six hours. The appointment was at 4pm. He stayed for dinner. He watched TV with them all the while calling his manager, dropping the price, talking to the kids about homework and intermittantly trying to close the sale. When Jay Leno came on they finally told him that they had to go to sleep.

I showed up the next day and the woman almost didn't let me in. She told me about five times that I can't stay, that I should measure and leave. I finally got the story out of her and told her that I didn't want to stay that long and tried to put her at ease but she never did warm up. I just mailed her a quote and never heard from her. She's probably still freaked out.

nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

#5 Post by nmmmm »

Dean S wrote:It's not your fault that you unwittingly had a Tin Man over for a sales call. However, at the two hour mark you should have thrown him out.
Chuckle...

I think we were both in a bit of shock at that stage - and of course we're all raised to be polite! But yes, we are now prepared for the next salesperson that uses this tactic!

We were interested in the various demos in terms of learning about various bits of windows (we had no clue before) but of course without comparing and contrasting with other manufacturers, we have no idea whether the product is the best fit for our needs...

I guess I feel a bit sorry for the salesman too, in that no doubt the firm "trains" them to sell in that style. I realize he could have chosen another firm, but then again he may have needed the job. Nonetheless, we aren't interested in doing business with them, and we have cancelled other appointments for other parts of our remodeling project now that we know what their company is about....

And you can be sure that none of our neighbors will be calling and asking them for a quote :)

So back to square one in our search for windows - though we do think we have selected a brand we like (but we are still open to others) I've just got to do the research on my own before letting anyone set up an appointment with us <grin>

Dean S
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:36 am

#6 Post by Dean S »

Sorry. I hate it when people say, "You should have..." and I did it to you.

You can learn a lot on this site if you have the time to dig for strings that apply. I've read that a lot of these salesmen only get a commission if they close the deal on the first visit. If you would have called in the order a day or week after the sales call the poor guy would have received little or nothing for his time. This is an antiquated way to sell and it is less and less common. But evidently it works sometimes or companies wouldn't do it. I also feel for the salesman, having to stay for hours and hours but he really should work for a better company.


nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

Not so sorry for the salesperson anymore!

#8 Post by nmmmm »

I told him we were cancelling (which we have) and his response was to drop the price even lower.

I said that I thought they were offering us the "lowest" price possible at the time they did the high pressure sales stuff...

His response? "Oh, I'm giving you my commission to get you this price."

When I said, "We wouldn't ask you to do that, so never mind the order" he quickly backpeddled and said that well, he was a manager so he got a salary too, so it wouldn't be a huge deal, and it would add to his quota...

I said well we were going to cancel most likely anway (which we did) so I guess that would take them off the table as they couldn't offer this new lower price any longer per "his" words...

He's back peddling again - oh well, we probably "can" continue to offer you the lower price...

Gah ;)

I'm continuing to post about this so hopefully others will be warned about "some" businesses sales tactics!

I guess now that we've cancelled, we are actually quite amused by the whole thing!

PS. Just got a call from the company to say there may be a follow up call with an even lower price ;)

nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

Not sure how I forgot this part of the saga <g>

#9 Post by nmmmm »

We sent our letter by UPS ground so it is dated and tracked so there's no room for more shenanigans on Long Fence's part about not recieving our letter, and faxed a copy to the sales person too...

To make even more sure they were very aware we had cancelled I called their head office to let them know by phone too.

The man I spoke too was so obnoxious, and actually launched into a sales spiel himself! A bit wiser to their tactics now <grin> I just hung up on him after saying, "We've cancelled - as we are entitled to by law - that's all you need to know."

The whole "operation" is just so sleazy...

I know it is a sales tactic that is dying out, but it really borders on harassment and frankly, in a way, bullying! I guess enough people follow through with their orders, that it still makes good business sense? I cannot imagine how though, as you can be sure that none of the neighbors I know will be calling Long Fence and Home for window quotations!

nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

Re: SCHUCO DEALER IN DC AREA

#10 Post by nmmmm »

Windowman PA wrote:IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A SCHUCO DEALER WHO WILL NOT PLAY GAMES PLEASE CALL NU-VIEW
Thank you very much windowmanPA - We have an appointment with NuView for early next week!

Thanks again!

fmayberry
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:07 pm
Location: Northern VA

#11 Post by fmayberry »

After the appointment, please let us know your thoughts about the company and prodcucts.

nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

Does this Schuco pricing sound reasonable?

#12 Post by nmmmm »

Our dilemma right now is whether or not to buy Schuco windows and how great a value they are compared to our purchasing a less expensive/mid quality window (so we can spend the few thousand we save on some other fix up in the house :)) The reason we aren't stuck on super quality is that we plan to sell our home in a few years...

If the Schuco value is great (it is hard to judge from pricing on this board as we have larger windows) we think we will go with them, as we can hopefully use them as a selling point when we move... We don't expect to recoup much in energy costs over just a couple of years - but I do like their looks... and if the energy savings is good, hopefully that'll be a selling point.

We have been quoted in total: $13,500 for sliders (or french casements - we haven't yet decided which)

2 windows size: 4 x 3
3 windows size: 5 x 4
3 windows size 5 x 5
Patio door 6 x 7
Patio door 5 x 7 (convert 5x5 window hole to patio door hole included.)

This works out (excluding the patio doors) at just under $1,000 per window - with some of them being larger, some smaller... Does this sound like good, great or poor value? Your feedback would be so helpful! Thank you!

We are (if you've not read our other posts) in the Metro DC (as in EXPENSIVE :)) area.

Thanks!

VA-Windows
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:14 am

#13 Post by VA-Windows »

nmmmm,

We are in NoVA and recently had our windows/basement door done. I see from your post that you have two doors and some big windows. From my experience, we got pretty much the same quote on windows no matter the size but having all big ones may make the price a bit higher that what we got. I also know that the basement door was substantially more than the windows. From what I remember the door was running somewhere between $1500-2000 by itself. You are looking at two doors. Our cost was approximately $700 per hole not just for windows but for the door too. Yours seems to be the same. If you break out the cost of the doors what is the avg cost per door? And then what is the average cost per window? That would give the folks on the board a better way to give you a good answer. I hope that helps some.

VA-Windows.

nmmmm
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:53 pm

cost per window...

#14 Post by nmmmm »

VA-Windows wrote:nmmmm,

If you break out the cost of the doors what is the avg cost per door? And then what is the average cost per window? That would give the folks on the board a better way to give you a good answer. I hope that helps some.

VA-Windows.
If we take out the cost of just the doors, the price per window would be approximately $925 (this is big, medium and small)

The cost for the two doors, including construction, was around $6,000.

Thanks to all for helping as we figure out whether to go for expensive, but good value, or mid line and cheaper :)

amore125
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:28 am

13.5K is cheap for what you are getting

#15 Post by amore125 »

i dont understand this post...how much should this installtion cost? more than 13.5K if you want something that lasts and you want a professional installation with a warranty that makes sense...what are you thinking? what do you think a quality pella or marvin install would cost? why are you always looking for the cheapest way out? i always worry about the low bidder

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